To: RetiredNow who wrote (59739 ) 6/8/2002 9:47:58 AM From: hueyone Respond to of 77400 The truth is that this is accounted for in Earning Per Fully Dilute Shares, which most analysts use when calculating PE etc. Given that, I'd argue that Wall Street is not being fooled by options not being expensed, because it shows up in diluted EPS. Mindmeld: You are definitely missing something. Employee stock options impact shareholders in two ways. The dilution impact that you keep referring to is only one of the two ways. If the impact from employee stock options was only a dilution impact, then it wouldn't make a rats ass difference what the strike price is or what the market price is at exercise, or alternatively, it would not make a rat's ass difference what price the company could sell these same shares to the public for at full value for, or alternatively it would not make a rat's ass what the value of the these options are at grant using Black Scholes valuation model, but these things do matter. As soon as options are granted there is an estimated value and as soon as they are exercised, it is easy to calculate an actual value. (By the way, Buffet can calculate an actual cash value at any time---even when the options are underwater.) Simply looking at net income based on diluted shares does not capture all the expense and is a bogus argument. fortune.com Giving out options costs a company's shareholders in two ways. The first is by diluting their stake in the company. When employees exercise their options, a company has to issue new shares. This means there are more shares outstanding, which in turn means the stake of existing shareholders in the company is reduced. So when an option is issued, it amounts to a claim on the company-- think of it as someone putting a lien on your house. And the only way to find out about that lien is to look deep in the footnotes of the annual report. The other price shareholders pay is the opportunity cost their company incurs by selling shares at a low price to employees instead of selling them at full price to investors. If a company were to take all those discounted shares and sell them instead on the open market, it would of course have a lot more cash to spend. And whatever it spent that cash on--machines, consultants, salaries, bonuses--would show up as an expense on the income statement. In economic terms there is no difference between compensating employees by giving them cash and paying them with securities that they can convert into cash. To put it another way: If selling shares to the public and using the proceeds to pay an employee is a cost, then selling those shares to that same employee at a discount (and letting him book the resale profit) is no less a cost. Best, Huey