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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (50059)	6/10/2002 1:31:04 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

I'm fascinated by train wrecks. I don't see any blood yet today, just scratches and bruises. Must be a powderpuff train.

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (50059)	6/10/2002 1:33:20 PM
From: one_less	Respond to of 82486

here ya go outsider... kholt is incensed about my viscous attack on the noble X. So we've been reviewing the facts a bit today. ++++++++++++++++++++ CH made a couple of challenges to be specific on what everybody should do, or what I wanted him to do. He did this while declaring his position that no body should have expectations or judgements of anybody else. Well that is a set up if there ever was one. This was very late in the discussion and I had really said everything I could about my position. I don't think you are an idiot nor do I think CH is. CH wanted to push things to a new platform. I gave a polite and honest answer. Chris complained that I had not met his criteria of dictating his behavior. He claimed to be confused. I dismissed his complaint, and told him why. I made some general statement that I think we have an obligation to others as a matter of being human. So he made a more general challenge of what one as a human being would have as an obligation to other human beings. He expressed his doubt that there could be such a thing and if there was that he would identify with it. I gave my most heart felt and honest answer, with the best of intentions. X was tip toeing from the shadows and began posting as well. I responded cautiously but politely to her. Chris was expressing exasperation with me for not being more articulate with him. I explained my reasons for keeping things short. Neocon posted a nice rich explanation of his understanding of my brief statement. I endorsed his understanding of the post. The post was very straight forward and of obvious kind intent. Yet, there were some obvious not so good intended follow-ups by X and CH. X misquoted me and mocked me in a very mean spirited manner. She and CH had a little snide fest at my expense. You now confess your enjoyment and agreement with the whole thing. I did not respond or engage either of them. JLA commented on my poor judgement in attempting a polite dialog with X. I confessed that I had doubts and had expressed them from the start but felt opening a friendly door to X in what had been a friendly discussion might be a nice gesture. I told JLA that I had concerns about the possibility of " hateful, meanspirited, snide, illogical, slamming" and that X had lived up to that. These are not IMO flame words they simply are not "overlooking" X's contribution as you suggested to E. Snide: X admitted this elememt. slamming: X admitted this element. Illogical: X denies even the possibility of this. However, I would consider the post, Neocon made a logical follow up to the meaning of the post and X's something else. Something personal even with a tone of vendetta. Illogical in the context of what was asked for and what was given. Meanspirited: If you find her comments kindspirited, or even nuetral I would sure like to know how. "Mean" is something she has expressed a certain amount of pride over herself. It was a post to JLA not X. Still it was a comment about X's personality. And most people consider it a sabor rattle to see negative comments on their personality by someone they are angry at. Although X claims never to feel angry at any of us, I have my doubts. "Where does it come from, Pittsburg?" (sorry E). I should have guessed that it would bring X's...talents to the fore. I don't particularly care for the comments on my personality you make btw. I think I could find five objectionable descriptors in this post of yours. Well, X came on this way and you know it. It was uncalled for. So... "because the ref always sees the guy who throws the second punch? Well, that sounds fair to me. Not! So ref Karen? You have taken Laz, JLA, and E to to the penalty box over this. You have misrepresented me to the level of personal insult and out and out mischaracterization and misquoting. All this finger shaking and self righteousness to accomplish what? Boslter X, get your YA YAs out on people you don't want to confront on your own issues, using X. Convince people that their behaviour is unnexcused but if everyone would just over look X's.... "but it would never come to that if outside agitators didn't swarm to the scene and inflame matters, uh, the out sider and inflamer was X. CH had his own frustrations to vent and copped to that. He admitted to being out of character and playing a role with X that was pure animous. But you think the "Parrot" comment was out of line. I consider it very tame and considerate under the circumstances. If you were the even handed observer you claim to be you would have called him on this behavior. You are not. You are well aware of the history of conflicts between X and I and that I have asked her repeatedly to leave me alone. She began goading me and attacking via a discussion where she was definitely an outsider, presenting herself for no other purpose than to enflame. "His cracks to me are usually accusations of some ulterior motive on my part." Gosh Karen I wonder why? "X takes a swipe that was so clever I was choking with laughter. If people around here would just mind you, and over look X while she does her thing and and CH (or who ever) can chime in with your bolstering..."We were handling it "This is a classic case study of how these things happen. It is a perfect example of what I've been trying to describe to you."