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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (32839)	6/21/2002 11:22:53 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Israel's problem is that the Arabs are trying to "conquer the whole region". Through terrorism only, if you'll notice. I haven't seen any Arab armies mobilizing, have you? Military conquest requires armies and the Arabs know they would lose. As for terrorism, it has a pretty good track record getting colonialists to abandon colonies, but its record at actually overthrowing countries and destroying populations is not so good. We shall see. the South Africans...the Kurds...the Indians...the Basques...the Welsh...the Ainu Why stop there? You can surely find more examples from China's minority population groups. Throw in the Gypsies too while you're at it, you've got everybody else in the mix already. No matter how many population groups you toss into the argument, they still won't make the case that Israel is not a viable country. Because Israel has a viable economy, a stable government and a powerful military, has defended itself for over fifty years, and has thus passed the tests for being a viable country. (The Palestinians, on the other hand...) Israel has never won an offensive war That's because Israel has never fought an offensive war. Israel is not trying to conquer its neighbors. None of Israel's wars were "major". I see. They don't count because Israel won'em? They were quite as major as the neighboring Arabs could muster. The Turks lost 70,000 at Lepanto (killed or captured), Trafalgar killed 4800. The Persians lost 50,000 killed at the single battle of Issus. The Mongols killed a quarter million during the march on Vienna Wow, Carl, you're beating your own records of irrelevancy. Issus? Why don't you bring in the dynastic wars of the ancient Egyptians and Hittites, at least they would be local? And you have got me curious -- what Mongolian march on Vienna? Ghengis Khan died in Poland. Are you confusing the Mongols with the Turks? Sheesh, Carl. I'd enjoy arguing with you more if you didn't move the goalposts everytime you were in danger of losing a point.

To: Bilow who wrote (32839)	6/21/2002 3:05:14 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 281500

Also, one of my buddies says that Israel's policy of taking land for terror will halt suicide bombing eventually. I'll collect dinner in June 2003 when the first suicide bombing of that month breaks his prediction. I agree with you on this at least. The most that any reasonably possible Israeli tactic can do is reduce the number of suicide bombings. I don't think they will stop completely even if Israel does an ethnic cleansing job, or gives the Palestinians a state. Israel can at best hope to contain them not end them. Tim