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Gold/Mining/Energy : Canadian REITS, Trusts & Dividend Stocks -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Scott Mc who wrote (3510)	6/21/2002 11:13:02 PM
From: Peter W. Panchyshyn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 11633

Trust buys another trust with a 10% payout for $1000 Payout = $100 - $30 (3% management fee)= $70 $70 is less than $100 Trust issues rights 1 Right + $10 gets a share $10 goes to fund, they give $0.50 to underwriter, they have $9.50 to invest $9.50 is less than $10.00 This is basic accounting............ ----- Your problem is that you have your head too deep into those accounting books and away from the real world happenings. As I showed before for the unitholder before the rights and after the rights are issued his value is unchanged. His $X value before which was just made up of trust units afterwards becomes the same $X value just now he has $Y (trust units) + $Z (rights). $X = $X. Afterwards the trading of each of the trusts and the rights goes their own ways. And when unitholder can buy more rights for $0.05 and then sell them for more than $0.20 later. That puts REAL MONEY INTO HIS POCKET. And that leaves the unitholder with more than he has had before. THOSE ARE THE DOCUMENTED REAL WORLD HAPPENINGS, PERIOD. That makes your textbook definition good for nothing. Because it does not show what a person in the world world is getting and thats the bottom line. -------------------- Your total argument is "Look at me, my trust is going up, everything is great" -------- My argument is not just that it has been going up but more importantly it is paying out the same or near the same. And there is the added ability to get real rewards from what managemnt is doing by trading the rights and putting real money into the unitholders pocket. You just ignore these. ------------ This is what reminds me of NTel buyers, they ignored the basic laws of accounting, its like someone jumping out a window where there is a strong blast of upward air and they are pushed up..."look at me, gravity doesn't exist" ----- I let the real world facts and data speak for themselves. That you supply none of that real world trust data is pathetic. Your only recourse is yet another apples to oranges comparison. Come on at least try to provide some real world trust data in your own defense. That once again you refuse to or can't speaks volumes about your assumptions and your conclusions. I on the other have provided links and data from the trusts of trusts SDT and EIT to prove my case and shoot down all your feeble attempts ------------ All I said was, you are making money great, I would rather not invest in a fund of fund because there are fixed costs that subtract from the return, ------ And one key point from you is not only have you not been able to refute my example that looked at the cost of $1700 and the return of over $3500 using the real trusts numbers. That clearly show that the benefits exceed the costs. But you have not provided one bit of evidence that shows that you are doing better on your own. -------- I also said if you think that management can bring value by stock selection, fine. But they can not CREATE value by issuing shares, warrants, rights, convertible prefers, LYONS, etc etc.. Maybe by deploying some... ------ Again you want to talk of value what I show using the real trust numbers from the real trust is the real gains one gets. That go directly into the unitholders pocket. The monthly income and the gain from the rights trading. I keep showing them and you keep ignoring them. But they are of prime importance to unitholders. ------------- All you say, is "Look at me, my boat is rising!!!!" --------- I don't just say that my boat is rising but I also say that my pockets are filling from the payouts each and every month. And they are filling from the real gains made with the rights and warrants trading when they are done each and every year. Those are all documented real world occurrances. And all you do is ignore them --------

To: Scott Mc who wrote (3510)	6/22/2002 4:52:06 AM
From: Peter W. Panchyshyn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 11633

Give 1000$ to Fund: Fund buys 1000$ worth of REIT with a 10% payout REIT pays $100 to fund, fund takes 2.5% of $1000 or $25. $100 payout - $25 = $75 paid to shareholders ------- While this example of yours from a previous post much like you use in that recent post of yours is used by many to depict management fees for funds. It has one key basic flaw in it. It is not how the fees are charged to the funds. PERIOD. Management fees are charged that 2.5%. But the funds do not have a little man standing there when a deposit is made to the fund by a fundholder taking the fee out of that $1000 as you say. The fact is that management fees are charged on a monthly basis to the, or against the net assets of the funds. And it is done well before payouts are made by the fund. To show what really goes on. In any one particular month a fund with net assests of say $100,000,000 (as by example) will be charged 1/12 of (2.5% of $100,000,000). Now that $100,000,000 will include yes payouts from that which is in the fund (say a trust-REIT) but it will also include any real gains made from the sale of assests or holdings of the fund (say a right) , it will also include any unrealized gains of assets or holdings held by the fund at that time. So what you show as $25 coming solely from the pocket of fundholder A, isn't what is really happening at all. That first $25 you speak of isn't coming entirely from a single unitholders A , $1000 initial purchase. Nor is that $25 you speak of coming from one single funds holdings (REIT) payouts. It is coming from the total assests of the fund. And it is done well before any payouts are made to any and all fundholders. STICK TO WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE REAL WORLD. -------------------