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To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 6:24:06 PM
From: yard_man	Respond to of 436258

>>The net present value of no cash flows is nothing, $0 stock.<< Seems a bit harsh <vbg> I mean -- maybe if they have a really good idea and someone will subsidize them until they can start making a profit -- you know -- scale up to profitability -- te he he he ...

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 6:27:41 PM
From: Box-By-The-Riviera™	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

another fantastic rant

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 7:02:23 PM
From: martin001	Respond to of 436258

Go Reaper Go These crys for regulation make me laugh. Every time the stock markets have crashed the public gets all lathered up about those damn institutions and analysts. And every time there are regulations that are enacted in order to "protect" the investor. Down tick rule and SEC after the 29 crash. Program curbs from 87. The list goes on. New regulation just puts a civilized and a "feel good" veneer on a market that is/has and always will be rigged in favor of the big boyz. It just sets the sheeple up for the next fleecing. And these boyz are good - its never the same trick twice but it always the same emotion that it plays upon - greed. Martin

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 7:05:24 PM
From: marginnayan	Respond to of 436258

You can become educated in the ways of finance (since on some level no less than your financial well being is at stake) or you can ask for "regulation" and stand comfortably by while the next group of charlatans takes what's left away. I have been educationg myself for the past five years and will continue to do so. I respect your view. But still regulation will go a long way in correcting the system. Time will only tell and we shall see how the next ten years turn out. Thanks for all the replies. marginnayan

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 7:07:13 PM
From: marginmike	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 436258

My sister's got a beautifull MBA from Columbia and she couldnt pick a good stock if it fell on her. The problem with School and B-school is they teach conformity to the group so those students start believing stuff because the rest of them believe it too. They become sheep. I wont even go into the fact that most business professors are nit-wit's who have no understanding of real Business world situations. My sister wrote a thesis that was comended by her proffessor, and she raised VC money on his help. The company was in a business none of them understood, and was doomed to falure from day one. Neither me nor my father would give her a dime because we thought it had no shot of working. It was in an industry both of us new very well, and fundimentally understood the market better then her or the dopey MBA's who gave her money. Any rational business person new B to c would NEVER work. Yet VC, analysts thre money at companies like Web Van, and Pets.com and others. Frankly I got my MBA from Manhatten street University and ill debate any business topic with any MBA anytime. Ive done it in the real world, these people are just jokers who think a piece of paper makes them creative and smart.

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 7:16:26 PM
From: Giordano Bruno	Respond to of 436258

Excellent synopsis Reaper. It seems like only yesterday when neither profits nor cash were imperative cuz the internet had changed everything. What's a 10K? ;-)

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 7:29:31 PM
From: Earlie	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 436258

Reaper: Amen to that. I can't recall how many times I wrote reams about scammy accounting,...... only to be met with comments such as "Well, you seem to be the only person on planet Earth who thinks that way", or "Well the market sure thinks you are wrong", or "If I follow your advice, I miss the fruits of this bull market", or "You are dumber than a wooden broom handle". Believe me, you could write pages of prose and print reams of data that all irrefutably painted the picture IN NEON that accounting fraud was being perbetrated, but NO ONE would give your stuff so much as a minute of consideration. It was like having leprosy and after a while you got treated as so inflicted. Realization comes slowly to sheep. Best, Earlie

To: reaper who wrote (176304)	6/28/2002 11:45:12 PM
From: Greg Jung	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Reaper I will dissent from the chorus and say GFY for claiming that cash flow is simple to see drainage. Look at Wcom cash flow sheet biz.yahoo.com cash flow from operations forpast four quarters reads just under$2b, then there are numbers in all sorts of categories, all over the map. Bottom line is, you can't tell shit from the bottom lines, most investors have to rely on "the profession" that the financials at least correspond to the market value. So WCOM is the big baddy lately only because they didn't properly hide 3.5 billion, they didn't complete step 2 in proper fashion. The only remarkable thing about it is that is was labelled as "error" or "improper" as it was announced. The next day Motorola wrote off a similar large sum and laid off 7,000 employees. We also have the options grant/ buyback scam that has put IBM into debt over $20b, kept value from the shares of microsoft, etc.