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To: Jerome who wrote (60110)	6/30/2002 5:55:43 AM
From: RetiredNow	Respond to of 77400

Perhaps, Jerome. I'm not saying that the programs weren't needed during the Great Depression. However, things are much different now. The system which worked then is broken now. I don't claim to know exactly how to fix it, but I'm reasonably sure that the first step is to acknowledge it is broken, convert the benefits owed under the current system to debt on the books so we know what we're dealing with, and then move forward on exploring real options to ensure the long term problem is addressed with a long term solution. Band aids aren't enough anymore.

To: Jerome who wrote (60110)	6/30/2002 1:32:12 PM
From: Dave	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77400

Jerome, I think that the young people of Dave's age as well as Lizzie, have not seen the human suffering of the 30's and are apt to blow off Social Security as not needed. The problem is that I am forced to pay into Social Security wherein my contributions are immediately spent, whether it be to current recipients or on various programs that fail to provide a positive return on investment to the economy in general. The points that you make regarding social security such as disability, etc. are good ones. The problem is, if I do become disabled and start drawing from SS, who is going to pay for me? Social Security has never been invested and, additionally, the future liability of social security is not part of our national debt. Additionally, think of all the military retirees and civil servants that will begin to retire. Those people's pensions will be drawn directly from the general treasury. I assert that these various "benefits" that the gov't offers are, in fact, Ponzi schemes. Corporations are migrating from a defined benefit plan (pension) to a defined contribution plan (401k). Why? Because, most likely, it is too expensive to continue with a defined benefit plan. Like I said before, the way the US pays benefits is similiar to a college fraternity. The "younger" generations are the "pledges" wherein our sacrifice(s) are used for the gain of the "older" generation, or the "brothers". I remember receiving this advice from someone who never had much education. "There is no easy money." Remember all those fables and sayings that we read or learned as children? Remember the Grasshopper and the Ant? "Save for a rainy day" Ponzi schemes, to my knowledge, are illegal. I assert that Social Security is, in fact, a Ponzi Scheme. However, since the US continues to believe that Social Security and Medicare taxes are perfectically legal, I would be willing to start a system just like social security which is backed by the full faith and credit of "dave".