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To: Michael M who wrote (16141)	6/30/2002 1:13:01 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

When it comes to public demonstrations, these are more commonly staged by people who burn the flag than those who pledge allegiance to it. An average of 11 flags a year are burned. I imagine those who pledge allegiance to the flag are involved in hundreds of thousands of demonstrations for one thing or another every year. Sheesh.

To: Michael M who wrote (16141)	6/30/2002 1:23:58 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

Re you being fringe-y, Michael: Regarding the Pledge decision (which will be overturned anyway), you wrote: I think this ruling could be the "straw" that got to Joe Camel. Frankly, response may take a back seat to retaliation on this one. and I believe many will be insist on saving what we have v. waiting to see what the 9th wants to give us. In reply to my question, "What's that, MM? A hint of a vigilante action, perhaps? Or what? A petition, maybe?" your reply was not to say I had misunderstood regarding you and perhaps some hint vigilantism in your retaliation-comments, but to write "IMO, some members of the 9th Circuit fit the definition of vigilante like a glove," To which Laz replies, "Evasion. What did you mean by "retaliation"?" A question you declined to answer. Perhaps you didn't see it, though. The above is why I consider the adjective "extremist" to be appropriate.

To: Michael M who wrote (16141)	6/30/2002 1:58:52 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

When it comes to public demonstrations, these are more commonly staged by people who burn the flag than those who pledge allegiance to it. Why don't we just elect A. Hitler Fuehrer and be done with it? Would that make you happy? Public demonstrations are a basic political right of Americans. It is part of what makes the country a democracy. Here: Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. That's where it is defined. Amendment I again. The first amendment in the Bill of Rights. The USSC has held, and I believe they are correct, that flag burning is a legitimate form of political expression. It indicates strong disagreement with the government's position. And the fact that it pisses you off proves the Supreme Court is right.

To: Michael M who wrote (16141)	7/1/2002 9:06:30 AM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 21057

NO ONE is required to pledge allegiance. Required by law, no. Effectively required by common practice is another thing entirely. The pledge is a cultural icon. The insertion of the words "under God" was an attempt by one group to impose their beliefs on the culture as a whole. It was a divisive and intolerant act. Removing the words would not be anti-religious, it would simply return the religious to an equal footing with the irreligious, which is as it should be, as far as I can see. I think it would make sense to remove the words from the "official" version, which ought by rights to be as inclusive as possible. Then the religious could insert any statement of submission to the divine that they deemed appropriate into their personal versions, and none would have any right to interfere. A reasonable compromise, I would say, but I doubt that many of the religious sort would agree.