To: lorne who wrote (562 ) 7/4/2002 5:43:27 AM From: Cogito Respond to of 3467 >>I have asked many people many times what would determine legal ownership of land. Should it be as you have stated above.." who was there first" ? Should it be determined by war? Should it be determined by majority?<< Lorne - I didn't mean to say that I believe that history and "who was there first" should be the deciding factor in determining who owns any piece of land. In fact I think that's a fundamentally flawed approach. The problem with that approach, which I was trying to show, is the question of how far back you decide to go. I certainly couldn't tell you what the right way to decide these things might be. But part of the problem, it seems to me, is the whole concept of "holy ground" and nationalism in general. Still, I'm not sure why you say there was never a recognized state of Palestine. Here's a link to a good site (the National Archives) which gives a good capsule history of the creation of the state of Israel. Notice that it refers to the Balfour Declaration, Britain's endorsement of "the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine." This happened in 1917.archives.gov Here's another link to a discussion of the Balfour Declaration.mideastweb.org At the bottom of the first section is a reference to the fact that in 1915, the population of Palestine was around 780,000, of which approximately 80,000 to 100,000 were jewish Zionist settlers. See also this link:yale.edu It's a letter from F.D.R. to Kin Ibn Saud regarding the situation in Palestine, which he clearly refers to as a "country." My point is simply that is seems that in very recent history there was definitely a country called Palestine, and that most of the world recognized its existence. It's not as if I'm a serious scholar or anything, but I'm a little better grounded on twentieth century history than I am on Biblical times. ;-) - Allen