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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (52383)	7/5/2002 5:41:51 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 82486

If god were so obvious faith would not be involved. Most religions, no matter which God is involved, explain this as something of a "test". If you suggest the whole thing is extremely obvious there is no need for faith, and thus where IS the test? Of course it isn't all that obvious or so many fine minds would not miss the very obvious proof- and not just in this century- in all of recorded history. Kiekegaard said exactly what you are saying E said- that we must take a conscious leap of faith. Other religious philosophers take somewhat different routes. But your argument from causation is one everyone discusses in first year philosophy- as I'm sure you know. It is right up their with the argument by design. They don't hold up very well as arguments, unless you believe in them to begin with.

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (52383)	7/5/2002 6:36:47 PM
From: J. C. Dithers	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

There is a need for faith because... If God does exist .... it doesn't necessarily follow that we humans mean a thing to "him." If there is a supreme creator, we could be just an incidental, expendable life-form .... it doesn't follow that everything in creation is about us.. That is why I think the majority of humankind can live comfortably with the idea that their nations exist "under God." What that may mean to our species in general, or to us individually, is where faith-based religions come in. To me, the god of the pledge is simply acknowledgement of this supreme creator, and not an endorsement of any particular religious faith. If 90 percent or more of humanity accepts such a god --- then I think the pledge inclusion is justified. (Having dinner out tonight ... see you tomorrow!)