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Politics : World Affairs Discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: ChinuSFO who wrote (151)7/9/2002 8:48:00 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 3959
 
Ferdows, who gave only her first name, awaits trial in January. She has since been convicted of murder and sentenced to death.

Iran faces wave of husband killing
The CNN World News
July 7, 2002

TEHRAN, Iran -- Married at age 13 to a man 18 years her senior, Ferdows was the wife that Iranian society expected her to be: obedient, and silent, despite the beatings and humiliation.

But after 30 years of marriage, she had had enough. She arranged to have her husband, Hedayat, killed, authorities say.

Ferdows, who has been convicted of murder and sentenced to death, is one of at least 20 Tehran women accused of murdering their husbands since February. Initially, the reports of the slayings were largely unnoticed. That changed as the number rose and Iranians began to see the killings as signs of social stresses.

"Husband killing is a new phenomenon in Iran's male-dominated society. It means economic hardships and social crises are reaching a crisis point," said Mohammad Ahmadi, a sociologist.

He cited a number of problems in Iranian society that lead to frustration and desperation: forced marriages, philandering by husbands, impotence, poverty and no healthy entertainment in a country whose Islamic laws ban socializing between men and women who are not closely related.

Others blame restrictive divorce laws that leave women feeling murder is the only way out of a bad marriage.

In Ferdows case, she accused her husband of abuse.

Ferdows, who gave only her first name, awaits trial in January. She has since been convicted of murder and sentenced to death.
"During 30 years of matrimonial life, Hedayat always beat me. He was a doubter and skeptical of everything and didn't trust me. He had made the life hell for me," Ferdows told authorities, who have identified her only by her first name.

Ferdows paid a man the equivalent of $3,750 to stab her husband to death three years ago, prosecutors said. The crime wasn't exposed until this February, when police found her husband's remains in an abandoned building. She had told people her husband abandoned her.

Both Ferdows and the hit man were convicted and sentenced at a closed trial in April. Word of the outcome leaked out a few weeks ago.

The punishment for women who murder their husbands is death. Some have already been convicted and executed. Others are on death row and some are awaiting trial. They come from all social classes.

"Divorce is the first solution for women to get rid of an undesirable troubled life. But why did these women ignore this option and resort to something that carries the death sentence?" asked the monthly magazine Zanan (Women).

While Iranian men can divorce almost at will, a woman who wants a divorce must go through a legal battle that can take up to 20 years, said lawyer Sara Irani. Even then, she said, it might end with the woman failing to dissolve the marriage.

Under Iran's Islamic laws, a man is allowed to keep four wives at one time, a right not granted to women.

Even if a husband is having an affair, he can claim to have undertaken a "sigheh," or temporary marriage. It's a contract allowed under Iranian law that allows a man and woman to be "married" for any length of time they choose. Critics call it a form of legalized prostitution.

Nor does a wife trapped in a violent marriage have much recourse against her husband.

"A woman has to bring four men witnesses confirming violence against her by her husband," Irani said. "How is a woman in Iran expected to keep four men in her bedroom to witness her husband beating her?"

Irani, who is also a writer on women's affairs, said that husband killing is the "outcome of humiliation and discrimination against women" and that the recent surge in cases should pressure the country's leaders to improve legal protection for women.

Ahmadi, the sociologist, said that in a country where there is virtually no sex education, unhappy marriages and domestic violence also can arise when husbands and wives don't know how to please each other. "Many couples don't have enjoyable sex," he said.

Abdosamad Khorramshahi, a lawyer, sees social changes contributing to the killings.

"Previously, we had a socially closed society. Women were not allowed even to get out of the home without the husband's permission. Now, things have changed. They are more outspoken and courageous. Women have become aware of their rights and are fighting for equality," he said.

According to official figures, 44,000 Iranians were divorced last year, a 12 percent increase from the previous year. At the same time, registered marriages were down 4.5 percent.
iranandworld.com



To: ChinuSFO who wrote (151)7/9/2002 10:54:09 PM
From: Original Mad Dog  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 3959
 
That article makes Islam appear to be worse than the bigots have succeeded in portraying it:

The Islamic world represses women, spawns terrorism, is prone to war, resists democracy and has contributed remarkably few great scientists or writers to modern civilization. So it's time to defend Islam.

I don't think it takes a bigot to conclude that women under Islam tend to be repressed, that Islam spawns terrorism far more than any other religion, that Islam has so far been unable to coexist with democracy, and that per capita its contributions to the learned arts and sciences are fewer than most other religions. What I don't understand is the purpose of defending it, as if defending something should be done merely because others criticize it.

it's a cheap shot for us to scold Arabs for acquiescing in religious hatred unless we try vigorously to uproot our own religious bigotry.

If Muslims are anti-Semitic bigots, they are wrong. If some Americans or Israelis or anybody else is bigoted, they too are wrong. There is no need to link one to the other. The Arab anti-Semitism is not rendered more palatable by the mere fact that other bigotry exists in the world, some of it against Arabs. If I kill my neighbor, is he justified in killing his neighbor, since there are other killers in the world?

"Islam is, quite simply, a religion of war,"
"They should be encouraged to leave. They are a fifth column in this country."
Ann Coulter, the columnist, suggested that "we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

Take these one at a time. Islam is, to some of its own proponents, a religion of war. Islamic schools promote war and the fighting arts and in some cases suicide; not all Islamic schools, but more than one or two. To call it a religion of war is a simplistic overstatement, but to say it appears to be more a religion of war than, say, Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism, seems to be pretty accurate. The second statement, that Muslims should be encouraged to leave the U.S., is in the context of continued attacks by Muslims against U.S. civilians (9/11, two airport shootings, one in New Orleans and the other in LA, reported plots by others). And let's be very clear about the distinctions here. In America, Muslims are made to feel unwelcome by some (not all). They are encouraged to leave. In Muslim countries, those who do not leave or convert have historically been driven out. The last Christian church in Afghanistan was burned down a quarter century ago. Jews have been driven out of most Arab countries. A Pakistani tennis player was told not to return home for the "crime" of partnering in a doubles match with a Jewish player. That is far worse than encouraging someone from a group attacking this country that maybe they might want to leave.

Coulter's comment is bigotry. I think it was tongue in cheek, perhaps, but I won't defend it. But again, it doesn't justify similar attitudes by Muslims or anybody else.

Islam already has 1.3 billion adherents and is spreading rapidly, particularly in Africa, partly because it also has admirable qualities that anyone who has lived in the Muslim world observes: a profound egalitarianism and a lack of hierarchy that confer dignity and self-respect among believers; greater hospitality than in other societies; an institutionalized system of charity, zakat, to provide for the poor.

Has the author paused to consider that most of Islam's followers are in countries where religious choice is forbidden? Has the author thought about the fact that half of these "followers" are women, who hardly seem to get much benefit out of the religion and are forbidden to speak out against it. As for the purported greater "egalitarianism" in Islam, I laughed out loud when I read that. Saudi Arabia is an egalitarian society? Pakistan? Egypt? Be serious.

it's reasonable to worry about the implications of the spread of Islam for the status of women and for the genital mutilation of girls.

Oops. While we must defend Islam, or at the least not harshly criticize it, of course we also shouldn't forget that women are treated like dog meat and girls have their genitals mutilated. It's as though the author forgot to end that paragraph with a little catch phrase of the tolerance movement, something like "Not that there's anything wrong with that." Maybe the critics of Islam aren't bigots at all; maybe they just think that, morally, mutilating the genitals of a girl is wrong. Raping a boy's sister for walking to the store with a young woman is wrong. Forbidding women to travel alone or express themselves is wrong. Maybe their criticism of Islam for these things is actually.....dare we say it.... morally correct.

And another thing: There has been a firestorm of criticism lately of the Catholic church for the actions of its priests. To most people, mutilating the genitals of a girl is in the same moral neighborhood as fondling little boys. Yet I have heard no one jumping up and saying that the critics of Catholicism are "bigots".

Of course, Islam is troubled in ways no one can ignore. The scholar Samuel Huntington has noted that the Islamic world has "bloody borders," with conflict around much of its perimeter. Of the 26 countries torn by conflict in the year 2000, 14 have large Muslim populations. And on average, Muslim countries mobilize twice as large a share of the population in armed forces as do predominately Christian countries.

Here we go again. Of course, Islam is "troubled", yet it is wrong of course to point that out too bluntly. On the one hand, it is wrong to call it a religion of war. On the other hand, we of course must note in fairness that Muslim countries seem to have a remarkable propensity to fight wars (of terror and otherwise) with their neighbors. It is what it is. You can argue about that and interpret facts and stories differently, but to say it is bigotry for a "conservative" scholar to call it a "religion of war" and then a few paragraphs later say, oh, yes, but of course the followers of Islam sure seem to fight a lot of wars, is shoddy journalism.

Critics often quote from the Koran, for example, to argue that Islam is intrinsically violent ("fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them"). But the Koran, like the Bible, can be quoted for any purpose. After all, the New Testament embraces slavery ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling").

The religious books say all sorts of things. But the alleged bigotry is largely pointing to actual things that Muslims have done, often at the behest of their "spiritual" leaders, and observing that it is wrong and dangerous. The fact that the Bible has a few passages that make people squirm doesn't change the equation. Do Christians today believe in slaveholding? Not very many of them do. Do they believe that all non believers who occupy "Christian" land should be expelled in a jihad? I don't know of many who believe that.

I found that article to be a particularly lame homage to the journalistic ideal that there are two "sides" to every story, and neither side can possibly be "right". When you are talking about refusing others the right to practice their religion, locking women in their homes, mutilating the genitals of young girls, and inciting violence against civilians, I don't think it is bigotry for people to stand up and call that wrong. I think it is spineless for the media to stand up and defend it on the grounds that everything, no matter how seemingly awful, must be treated respectfully and tolerantly.



To: ChinuSFO who wrote (151)7/9/2002 11:08:14 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 3959
 
Chinu. Interesting article......From that article...." The Islamic world represses women, spawns terrorism, is prone to war, resists democracy and has contributed remarkably few great scientists or writers to modern civilization. So it's time to defend Islam"......

This is the first paragraph in that article and the first thing that comes to mind is why would anyone want to defend this sort of thing. And if it is time to defend islam then it is up to islam itself to provide this defense
and not the victims of their crimes. The victims have every right to speak of islam as stated in this article.

The writer of this article seems to think that the victims of these crimes should turn the other cheek. I disagree, I think it is time for the victims of islam to start calling a spade a spade it is the only way that any serious change to this religion will ever come about.

How many Americans as well as other innocent people have been murdered over the last 30 years by muslim terrorist?
And what happened when these terrorists were not brought to justice for their crimes? What happened is that they were encouraged to bigger and more horrendous crimes until they did the World Trade Center. IMO if the muslim religion is to survive then it must make changes to it's quran and it's teachings and it is the outrage of the victims of islam that will force change in the religion of islam.

....." Islam already has 1.3 billion adherents and is spreading rapidly, particularly in Africa, partly because it also has admirable qualities that anyone who has lived in the Muslim world observes: a profound egalitarianism and a lack of hierarchy that confer dignity and self-respect among believers; greater hospitality than in other societies; an institutionalized system of charity, zakat, to provide for the poor. Many West Africans, for example, see Christianity as corrupt and hierarchical and flock to Islam, which they view as democratic and inclusive.".....

What a crock of sh*t that is. Islam democratic!

Through no fault of their own there are many countries in Africa that are not very well educated and as such are easy targets for islam. Once islam gets a foot hold they will not be easy to remove. There will be a whole bunch of Afghanistans and the brutal repression that is part and parcel of islam control. Then it's to late.

Being tolerant, politically correct, freedom of religion,etc.etc.etc all those things that make our countries free is exactly the things that islamic terrorists use to get into our countries and kill us.

So. Should we turn the other cheek AGAIN or force change.?



To: ChinuSFO who wrote (151)7/9/2002 11:27:20 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 3959
 
Chinu. And here is another interesting article on islam.
After reading this article I have come to the conclusion that islam fundamentalists can not survive in a well educated society .

Iran's Third Wave
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
June 16, 2002

TEHRAN, Iran

Iran has the bomb. I know. I found it.

No, no — not that bomb. This bomb is hiding in plain sight — in high schools, universities and coffee houses. It is a bomb that is ticking away under Iranian society, and over the next decade it will explode in ways that will change the face of this Islamic Republic. It's called here, for short, "The Third Generation."

The first generation of Iranian revolutionaries overthrew the Shah in 1979 and founded the Islamic Republic. They are now old, gray and increasingly tired, a clerical regime clinging to power more by coercion than by any popular acceptance of their plan to Islamize all aspects of Iranian life. The second generation came of age during the 1980's Iran-Iraq war, which left 286,000 Iranians dead and 500,000 injured. This is a lost generation, deflated and quiescent.

The third generation are those Iranians from 16 to 30 who have come of age entirely under Islamic rule. They never knew the Shah's despotism. They have known only the ayatollahs'. There are now 18 million of them — roughly a third of Iran's population — and they include 2 million university students and 4 million recent university grads.

"As with most revolutions, this third generation has no special sympathy for the founders of the revolution — in fact they blame our generation for bringing them a government they feel doesn't know how to run the country properly," observed Mohsen Sazgara, a former aide to Ayatollah Khomeini and now a top reformer. "They are the most significant population group in Iran [until the fourth generation, the 24 million Iranians under 16, comes of age], and wherever this generation decides to go is where Iran will go in the next decade."

Where this Third Generation wants to go is already apparent. While some of them are religious conservatives, most are not. They are young, restless, modern-looking and often unemployed, because there are not enough good jobs. They are connected to the world via the Internet or satellite dishes — and they like what they see. They want the good life, a good job, more individual freedom and more connections with the outside world — and they are increasingly angry that they don't have those things. They embrace Islam, but they don't want it to occupy every corner of their lives.

"They are not anti-religious, but they are anti-fundamentalism — they refuse to be blind followers of anything," says Hamidreza Jalaeipour, a sociology professor. His 19-year-old son, Mohammadreza, nods vigorously in agreement.

The government has already had to ease up in response to them. When I was last here, six years ago, a friend took me to see an Iranian guitarist who had an electric guitar but could only play songs in his bedroom, because pop music had been banned. Today he is giving public concerts of Iranian pop songs and cutting CD's. When I was last here women had to be covered in black robes and their hair could not show. Now the robes are multicolored and many push back their head scarves to show their hair. When the mullahs shout at them, many young women shout right back. The most popular Iranian films today are those that mock the hypocrisy of the theocracy, including one now playing in Tehran about a 15-year-old Iranian girl who has a child out of wedlock and decides to keep the baby, and another about a mother who runs off with her daughter's fiancé.

This Third Generation of Iranians is quite different from its counterpart in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a country getting younger, poorer, more Islamic and more anti-American — as young Saudis react against what they consider a corrupt, irreligious, pro-American regime. Iran is a country getting younger, poorer, less Islamic and less anti-American — as young Iranians react against an anti-American theocracy, isolating them from the world.

When Iran got the telegraph in the early 1900's it helped trigger the first constitutional revolution against the despotic Qajar regime. When telephones and tape cassettes spread around Iran in the 1970's, they became tools through which Ayatollah Khomeini spread his revolution against the Shah. Today the Internet and satellite TV have come to Iran, bringing with them new appetites and aspirations for Iran's Third Generation.

This Third Generation hoped President Khatami's reformist candidacy would satisfy those aspirations, but he proved to be a bust, unwilling to confront the conservatives. No matter. The Third Generation will eventually find a new political horse to ride and, when it does, Iran will change — with or without the ayatollahs' blessings.
iranandworld.com



To: ChinuSFO who wrote (151)8/23/2002 11:36:09 PM
From: Chris land1 Recommendation  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 3959
 
This is fair grounds for debate, but the sweeping denigrations of Islam are mush. Critics often quote from the Koran, for example, to argue that Islam is intrinsically violent ("fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them"). But the Koran, like the Bible, can be quoted for any purpose. After all, the New Testament embraces slavery ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling").

Fair grounds???? Not hardly, just because the muslim religion has a lot of adherents doesn't make it right and it certainly by no stretch of the imagination should even be held up to the same standard as Christianity. As for the New Testament embracing slavery???? yeah right, read it again!!! What do you think the scriptures would say, oh lets see. How about, slaves rebel against your masters for this is right. Or perhaps, slaves you do not have to be slaves so do not obey your masters. Understand, the writer is not saying slavery is good, he is saying basically if you are in the position of being a slave then submit as if the Lord were your master. He also goes on and exhorts those who are in positions of mastery over other mens lives. Saying that they are not to forget that the Lord is over all and he sees how he is treating those under him.

Hey, it's a fact, life just isn't fair. There are innocent people sent to prison just like there are guilty felons living it up sumptuously. An innocent child dies at the age of three years old and an old &*$#%)#)*) like George Burns lives to be old before he croaks, (Oh God). Just keep in mind that there is a judgement to face after this life is through. Those who have been forgiven will not have to face all eternity in utter torments and those who are not forgiven will. Shoot, looks like the after life isn't any more fair than this life afterall. Ahh.....but....it's all in the perspective. Mens' perspective is flawed but God's is perfect.

recommendation?? ...sure Seek God, ask to be forgiven of your sins. If nothing else when you stand before the judge you can at least say, Lord i knew i was under the bondage of sin and cried out to you for help. Wonder what His answer will be. Well, i am almost certain that those who call upon the name of the Lord will not be made ashamed when all is finally said and done.

I am amazed that people are bashing Rev Graham for his stance on the Muslim religion. Ah heck, i would probably face the firing squad.