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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (52849)	7/12/2002 4:21:58 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

It is amusing that you compare the pledge with the state bird and the national anthem- I guess that would make the god mentioned in the pledge the state God or the National God? If a whole class of children gets up to recite the pledge, no child without a support system (like the Jehova's witnesses) is going to feel comfortable just standing there. Even worse, allowing children to just stand there might create an amazing opportunity for disrespect. Because if you let the kids know they don't have to say it, dollars to donuts you'll get some kids goofing off. IMO it is good to have regimentation at school- but lets regiment in a way that leaves behind as few citizens as possible. Let us pledge to serve our country, regardless of our religious belief or lack thereof. What is important is that we love our country in our own way. Future peace protestor, future green beret, future hog butcher, future PETA activist- they are ALL part of America and her wonderful diversity. Why not have a pledge that is as warm and generous as the best of America can be, and not even a little bit limited and exclusive. Because no matter how you argue it, the pledge as it was modified in the 50's does leave out good people who do not profess a belief in God. You can argue until you are blue in the face and say it does not- but on its face, it quite clearly does not encompass our values and beliefs. (of course it has been argued here that we non-believers have no values and beliefs- which just shows how far we have to go)

To: TimF who wrote (52849)	7/12/2002 4:27:23 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Let me put it this way, Tim. I am in and out all day, so this is probably the only response I can give for now. Let me tell you what the rest of the world saw. They saw the Nation that markets itself as the champion of democracy, and the leader of freedoms, and the epitome of lawfulness (as opposed to force and whim)--prostitute Her values to a personal agenda. They saw the entire House stand and place their hands on their heart, and sneer at the ruling of the Court...and at the authority of the Law. The Court had just said it was unconstitutional, and thus illegal. There are processes for challenging court rulings that those whom believe in the rule of law may avail themselves of. But your entire leadership defied the ruling of the court, and made sarcastic and vituperative remarks against the sincere considetrations of the Justices acting in their judicial capacity. And they sneered and defied in front of the American people--those very people who pride themselves on their Constitution and the rule of law. They basically said: "F---k the ruling, and F--k the law. They brought the Church in as implied Head of State in 1954...and by God if they were going to give back the ground they had gained. Their insolence was contemptible. For insisting on putting "God" above the Law--the very Law who is supposed to be their master and authority...they ought (every single one of them) to have been held in contempt of that very Law which they spat upon...