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To: tcmay who wrote (168459)7/18/2002 1:24:16 PM
From: John Hull  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 186894
 
Tim,

a little gallows humor....

I've heard about those guys over at "Space Available".

They must be doing great. They are opening up offices faster than Starbuck's.

What's their stock symbol? SOL?

:)

jh



To: tcmay who wrote (168459)7/18/2002 5:42:05 PM
From: BelowTheCrowd  Respond to of 186894
 
Agreed.

And from my perspective, most corporations don't need much faster machines for most purposes either. The most complicated thing most people will use is a relatively simple Excel spreadsheet. You don't need much more than a 2-3 year old machine to run that.

Someday, most likely, there'll be a reason for new upgrades. Right now, there isn't.

In the home market, multimedia and gaming still have some influence on the desire for faster machines. In the corporate market there's NOTHING out there right now to demand more performance on the desktop. Even in servers, the need for greater performance is very spotty. Certainly there are some places where it's desirable, or even necessary. There are many others where the good old department server is still just fine.

There's another problem with this industry, and that is that many of the products we hype and create end up being useless to anybody even when they are technically successful. This was particularly true during the dotcom era, but has always been the case. The history of Silicon Valley is crowded with the stories of companies that created technically amazing products that never mattered to anybody other than the people who created them. Even 100% market share doesn't matter in a market that is not profitable.

mg



To: tcmay who wrote (168459)7/19/2002 6:32:33 AM
From: Amy J  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 186894
 
Hi Tim, RE: " America has long been loyal to hype. This toothpaste will change your life. This car will get you the girls. This dot com will change the world. Sizzle. Madison Avenue. Evangelizing, Hype."

Annoying too, isn't? Welcome to capitalistic consumerism. One reason why I avoid consumer marketing, is exactly that reason.

RE: "During the peak of the bubble, CNBC and other networks breathlessly reported every utterance of that guy with the beret from JDS Uniphase."

I was getting a bit concerned too. Prior to the boom, the network communication industry was only those of us that really like technology in network communications of sorts. That was it. Then the boom brought in some people that loved money but were rather unloving to technology, flashy people, big spender types with image. (My comment isn't any reference to JDSU, just the general industry trend.) I think the geeks were feeling pushed out a bit. The good news though, is it's getting back to what it was.

RE: "This is hardly new. About 15 years ago we had 20 PC companies all claiming they would each have 30% of the PC market. So more recently we have had 20 wireless/telecom"

I didn't realize there were so many PC firms. But of course it makes sense. That's an interesting analogy. This type of cycle will repeat itself in some other fashion.

RE: "Space Available" signs all over Silicon Valley"

(humor) Hey, if a startup sees a "Space Available" sign for a long enough period of time, that generally means one can just move some stuff into the spot.

Squatter rights are back you know. Why pay, when squatter rights are alive and well in Silicon Valley?

RE: " I read Grove's article"

It's more than just hyping. It's a problem with too many conflict of interest. I think hyping is certainly the impetus to the problem, but it's conflict of interest that avoids rooting the problem out. In America, where capitalistic consumerism flourishes, you cannot legislate against hype, you can only legistlate for a separation of powers to catch the hype.

RE: "I hope, Amy, that your company escapes this fate."

Thank you. Statistically speaking, at this point, most likely our company will be around forever in some form or shape. The downturn does deliver some advantages and minimizes some threats. The competitive threat is higher for startups in an environment where the system is too flush with capital - too many companies get funded in the same space - which means oodles of competitors. The best thing for any company that already has shipping product, would be if industry VC funding got turned off fast and hard. It would minimze new competitors, hugely penalize the big spender types, while rewarding those that have qualities of persistence.

RE: "Perhaps a new bubble is forming...I don't know"

I'm betting it's a bubble.

RE: "America is losing some of its infatuation with new gadgets."

I don't think a company can run a business based upon selling some gadget, and I think you know that. You have to provide a solution that solves some type of customer pain, need. Pain fixers sell, pleasure givers don't.

RE: "most consumers simply don't see the need for blazingly fast CPUs. Some do, and they will buy them. But most don't."

Well, I still disagree with you on this. While I do concur the trend isn't like what it was, I am still seeing entrepreneurs (not us, as we don't work in the consumer space) that are creating services that put demands on consumer chips. We may have to wait until .NET initiatives come through. Could be a few years. Gates spoke quite passionately about Moore's law in relation to some of the futuristic things Microsoft is pushing. He's not one to mince words. But he is quite visionary and most likely correct.

RE: " Corporations may continue to need faster machines and networks, just as they did in 1995 and 1990 and so on. But we need to look at the big picture and see that their demand probably won't be enough to return us to the days of hype and glory"

As I see it, the near-term problem is capex is cut in the biz segment for chips. Possibly the mid-term problem may be due to the number of companies going out of business that are no longer requiring faster chips. Long-term problem is probably going to be the drag on innovation due to various reasons. Lots of startups went under, though there were too many of them. And then there's always the comm industry, where one can see classic textbook cases of innovation blocking, where certain type of telco are essentially working to block demands for Cisco products given that their biz model does better without innovation and consumption, meanwhile, ironically another set of carriers are rushing for such innovation only because their biz model is based upon competitive forces that require them to sell product. Whatever. But somewhere in that mess, there are some pretty strong forces that are working against innovation. (More on this some other time, it's rather interesting.) I wonder how that'll register itself financially, in years down the road. This is where my expertise on politics is lacking, but there does appear to be some industry forces that are more powerful than Cisco's desire to sell innovative product. I've been buying CSCO lately, but I should probably step back and give some of these things more consideration.

RE: "Meanwhile, a lot of those companies each hyping themselves"

I doubt today's companies are hyping themselves. Partly because the VC industry is reducing in size, which is where hype formulated around. Today, the customers have more power than the VCs. I wouldn't say that was the case in the late 90's, where you had to raise money because the average deal size was $16M. Nowadways the average deal size is no different than a large account, so customers are king in today's economy. That puts technologists back in the driver seat.

Regards,
Amy J



To: tcmay who wrote (168459)7/20/2002 1:31:50 PM
From: FR1  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 186894
 
I don't agree.

The discussion we are having is like talking about how the dinosaurs died. Everyone is talking about tree fungus, viruses, hoof-in-mouth disease etc - and everybody is disregarding the fact that we had a direct hit by a asteroid the size of Manhattan that created most of the Gulf of Mexico.

The FED is the asteroid.

IMHO, it makes more sense to see things as part of the FED cycle:

1) The FED leaves the economy alone.

2) Growth industries emerge. Technology is almost always the leader here.

3) The economy gets strong.

4) The FED is composed of about a dozen economists. None of them have ever run a major business in their life. None of them are responsible to congress. The FED decides it is a good time to kill the economy (or, in their words, "cool off", "Slow down", "wring out the excess", etc). There is no inflation in sight but they have "theories" and "hunches" that something bad might happen. These are academics. In academia you live to be published and consequently they are very interventionist. Sitting quietly by and letting a market economy work is impossible for them. Since they don’t have to get approval from any elected official, they simply do whatever they want. The FED basically feels that the only economy that can exist is a economy that is constantly being government-managed.

5) Since the FED is responsible to absolutely nobody, they raise interest rates way up and take the money out of the banks by selling treasuries, etc. Venture capital dies instantly. Start-ups that depend on financing instantly die. Business plans based on reasonable interest rates die.

6) The entire growth sector of our economy collapses (surprise!). All the growth businesses and venture capital plays die. Enormous projects are killed in mid deployment and the businesses doing the projects are left with the bill.

7) The news media turkey-trots around saying "the bubble has burst", "the market got ahead of itself", "it was all corporate greed", etc. This is understandable because there are no journalists. Almost all news delivered to the public comes from advertising agencies. They are in show business - the opposite of journalism.

8) Congress, whose duty it is to oversee the FED, simply turns a blind eye because nobody wants to sit on a committee that oversees the FED (there is no money to give away and you will be sitting on a committee that someday will vote to raise interest rates). Politicians, like the media, get much more out of flogging corporate greed. A committee where you, as a politician, can wag the finger at evil CEOs makes great press. Solving the problem by actually overseeing the FED is political death.

8) A painful process of bankrupting and reconstructing the growth sectors begins. Since time is going by, new technologies are slowly beginning to emerge.

9) Go back to 1)

*******************************
We are between step 7 and 8.

The current FED cycle has gone like this:

In the middle 90's it became apparent that there was extremely strong demand in both business and public markets for broadband deployment. All the giant telcoms and a zillion small businesses went full tilt in deploying this technology. A zillion new businesses sprang up to take advantage of the new Internet world.

For those that favor a market economy, things were working just as it should. One of the basic characteristics of a market economy is that it allows dramatic new changes to occur in your society very quickly by shifting massive amounts of capital to the desired new technology. The market will sort out the good from the bad.

When automobiles first were invented, for example, lots of money went into horn makers because they were useful and they were going to be required on cars. When the auto manufacturers put the horn into the car it killed the horn market. That’s how the market sorts things out.

In our case we had the same thing. There were companies with a PE of over 3,000 and mostly just on hype and a prayer. The advance-decline ratio was falling off a cliff as you would expect it to. Then the professors at the FED felt they had to intervene and crush this exuberance even though there was no inflation. They had a hunch things were out of whack. The market people point out that the market was doing what it should do and it was correcting itself. Take Amazon as an example. Before the FED intervention AMZN went through its whole cycle. It came public with a great story. It went up 1,200% in a year. Then the public got tired of waiting for profit and sold it back down. The same would probably have happened to all the other story stocks. A lot of market people feel that had the FED not intervened we would still have businesses like pets.com and others but they would be penny stocks. The telcom industry would not have been hurt and still be booming. We would be years ahead of where we are now.

In summary: The FED, like the asteroid, killed the market. Don’t blame it on crazy corporate people. Don’t blame it on airhead Walt-Disney phrases like “the bubble got us!”.

The only good news is that the FED is probably out of the market for a few years.

The driving force we need, the desire for broadband, is still there.

People that say their computers are too powerful are like people who used to say “One megabyte! My god! That’s way overkill! What could you possibly do with all that wasted memory!”.

Imagine taking a pen-like object out of your pocket. Like a car antenna you can extend it up. You can then scroll a screen out from the object. You quickly have a large screen in front of you that you can interact with wirelessly. In your home an entire wall lights up and you can talk to somebody in Mongolia while the translated conversation is stored in text form.

Are we there yet?

We haven’t started.