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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (34935)	7/24/2002 3:57:19 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

"6. we need to get serious about addressing the underlying social/economic conditions in Islamic countries, that provides support for Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and Hamas." This is true, but the way to do it is to allow them to export their products to us. Trying to use young men with guns to "dry up the ocean" that supports ill will against us is hopeless. What we need to do is to use the weapon that we used to destroy the Soviet Union, trade. As noted somewhere else today, the Arab countries together have huge illiteracy rates and social policies that disenfrachise women. As a result, they have a combined GDP comparable to that of Spain. So long as the religious and political elites (who are often one and the same) find illiteracy and sexism acceptable or religiously compelled, there is no hope for the Arabs. They are in a fistfight with one hand tied behind their back. What can the US, the SuperSatan, do about changing the Arabs' religiously compelled notion that women are inferior? How long will it take to change the kinds of stupid attitudes that have kept the Arabs m in the dustbin of history for the past few centuries?

To: Bilow who wrote (34935)	7/24/2002 4:44:50 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

1. Is it wishful thinking to believe the U.S. is capable of carrying out a longterm plan to solve a longterm problem? ME Oil isn't cheap, not if you add in all the "externalized" costs. The cost of the Gulf War ($100B+), for instance. 9/11/01 wouldn't have happened, if we hadn't had the Gulf War. Wind power is already cheaper than oil, if you include all the costs of oil in your cost-benefit analysis. 2. <<I doubt it's possible for the US to do this>> Israel has only one friend in the world, so they are totally dependant on the U.S. After the 1956 Sinai adventure, the U.S. imposed an oil embargo against Israel, until they gave back the Sinai. Why can't the U.S. take a "tough-love" approach again, and say to Israel, "give us a timeline for dismantling all settlements outside the frontiers you offered Arafat at the end of the Clinton administration. If not, we will start cutting government aid, and arms shipments, and we'll keep cutting them until we get that plan."? 4. Ethnic cleansing is a nasty phrase. It implies much more than an exchange of populations; it implies massacres, organized mass rapes, etc. Exchanges of populations is a solution that has been done many times, and it works. They were carried out extensively after WWII, in Europe and elsewhere, to permanently settle boundary disputes that had festered for centuries. 10s of millions of Germans, Hungarians, Poles, etc., were moved, so that the demographic boundaries corresponded to the political boundaries. There are very, very few examples of successful multi-ethnic states. 6. I agree, the current administration's protectionist (and UnEnvironmental) policies make it harder to win the War On Terrorism. The Bush team is confused, on this issue, and is confusing the rest of the world. We want cooperation on the things that are important to us (like the War), but we refuse to cooperate on issues the rest of the world cares about (global warming, access to U.S. markets, etc.) <<Time is on our side.>> No, it isn't. We cannot stop the spread of knowledge about how to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction. As the world gets steadily more interconnected, systems vital to our lives are increasingly vulnerable to sabotage by the Disgruntled and LeftOut. Will "our culture" (whatever that is) win the war, before suicide bombers come to New York equiped with nukes? I'm afraid we are heading into an extended period of warfare, heavy restrictions on personal liberties, and ethnic hatred, before we "win the war". Cold War II, including McCarthyism, this time against the Muslims.