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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Yaacov who wrote (16026)	7/29/2002 9:26:26 AM
From: Angler	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

I don't see where this post by Jaeger is anything more than a news report. How it becomes Anti-American is not evident at least to me. I would imagine that most Moslem countries have members who feel uncomfortable with the continued presence of American military in their midst. That we went there to fill an essential need or crisis is appropriate, but we should get out of there as soon as possible and let the UN take over. After having been in the Korean conflict myself I find it troublesome to me that 50 yrs. later we still have to maintain forces there. It is hoped that we would not have to maintain forces in Bosnia and Kosovo forever either. The Romans who controlled their world at least got taxes and tribute from their protectorats. How much can the American taxpayer afford to commit to in future generations in declining economies? Angler

To: Yaacov who wrote (16026)	7/31/2002 8:09:53 PM
From: Elmer Flugum	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 23908

Minister's aide calls Hebron riots a 'pogrom' 216.33.148.250 Col. (res.) Moshe Givati, an adviser on settlement security for Public Security Minister Uzi Landau, yesterday termed the rioting that took place during the funeral of Elazar Leibowitz, "a pogrom against the Arabs of Hebron, with no provocation on the Palestinian side." Givati, who attended the funeral on Sunday, said he witnessed "brutal acts" and rejected absolutely explanations by the Jewish Community of Hebron Council spokesmen who said they were acting in self-defense against Palestinian stone-throwing. Givati, who was commander of the Hebron brigade during the first intifada, has good relations with the settlement movement leadership. He was appointed six months ago by Landau to help smooth relations between the police and the settlement community. Most of his efforts are in Hebron, where relations between the police and the settlers are particularly strained. Givati was in Hebron on Saturday night, in advance of the funeral for Leibowitz, an army first sergeant killed in a Palestinian ambush on Friday outside the city. The violence began already on Saturday night, he says, when a group of Jewish youths invaded a Palestinian house in the city, and burned and vandalized the possessions inside. Police and Border Patrol called to the scene arrested three of the youths, who included Leibowitz's brothers. They were released a few hours later. Givati says the police and army deployed properly for the funeral, but at the request of the settlers, the police maintained a low profile, letting the other security forces - Israel Defense Forces troops - provide security for the funeral procession. The violence began after the takeover of the podium where eulogies were being given in the garden outside the Tomb of the Patriarchs by a group of youths, many of them friends of the Hebron-born Leibowitz. They began calling for revenge. "At most, and I even doubt that, a small rock was thrown from the direction of the Palestinian houses. And that was enough. It was the signal for the thugs to charge," Givati said. He said that "the Palestinians did not throw any rocks or boulders at the funeral procession. There were 20 or 30 people, who were mostly not from Hebron," he said. He said he suspects most are from the outposts in the area of Itamar and Yitzhar. "For some reason they were all carrying army-issue weapons, and they charged into the Palestinian houses. "That's when the fracas began. I saw everything from very close range. There were long bursts of fire by the Israelis - into the air and at the houses." It was during that fire that 14-year-old Nibin Jamjum was killed by a bullet to her head, and a Palestinian boy was stabbed. IDF sources say that these two and the other wounded - 15 Palestinians in all were reported wounded, and an equal number of police were hurt - were casualties of the Jewish violence. "Dozens of thugs, including youths from Hebron, burst into Arab houses for no reason. They broke windows, destoryed property and threw stones. These people were there for the purpose of making a pogrom," said Givati. Soldiers, police and Border Patrol troops who arrived on the scene tried to arrest the rioters, but were attacked. "Police officers were beaten," Givati said. "I am an alumnus of the first intifada and I never saw anything like this. A dozen thugs knocked down a policeman and kicked at him." The police arrested some of the rioters, but the police car carrying them out was blocked by their friends, who damaged the police car. Boys and girls from Hebron kept up a stream of curses at the soldiers. They were called "Amalek's soldiers," and warned, "you're next." Givati believes the police and army "were too restrained. Considering the events, much more force should have been used. We cannot allow such harm to the rule of law. It's inconceivable that soldiers and police be cursed that way." He said that settlement leaders from outside the Hebron area were also shocked by the level of violence displayed by the settlers in Hebron. PA not cooperating The police said yesterday that the Palestinian Authority police force is not yet cooperating with an Israeli investigation into the rioting and the death of the Palestinian girl. They said that two of the girl's brothers were also wounded by gunfire, apparently when they tried to rescue their sister. The police say the PA police have so far refused to hand over medical forensic information from the wounded, which the police want to use to help identify assailants. But despite the difficulties, police said they are proceeding with their inquiry and that arrests are expected in the coming days. Although a Jerusalem Magistrate's Court released four suspected settlers, two of whom were minors, police are plowing through photographs of the riots, and questioning eyewitnesses.