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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (35523)	7/31/2002 4:40:53 PM
From: BigBull	Respond to of 281500

Yeah, he has "at least" has 3.9 tons of VX. Fancy that. I had an interesting experience about 3 weeks ago; I read "End Game" and "Germs" in tandem. Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War Judith Miller William J. Broad Stephen Engelberg search.barnesandnoble.com Endgame: Solving the Iraq Problem - Once and for All Scott Ritter search.barnesandnoble.com; Whatever Ritter's agenda is these days, the book is a good read in that it indicates what weapons systems Saddam held most dear. My impression was that he most highly valued his missile technology and his bioweapons programs. He also details the huge industry Saddam created just to hide his WMD programs. It also gives and interesting account of his security apparatus and how it ties in with tribal loyalties to help Saddam stay in power. Many of the WMD facilities were found within these "rings" of security around Tikrit and Baghdad. The central chapters in "Germs," written by 3 NYT reporters, discuss the Soviet and Iraqi bioweapons programs in detail. The Soviet program was astonishing in it's vast industrial scale. These guys were cranking out "enhanced" anthrax by the ton; 24-7 in round the clock shifts. The descriptions of of the "open air testing" and production facilities were a vision straight from Hell. No Joke. They were doing all this for 20 years while denying the very existance of the program and being signatories to intl. treaties banning the stuff. What Saddam was doing was creating a program that emulated the Soviet program, although not on the same scale or sophistication, still, the book states that Saddam had created enough bioweapons (botulinum, anthrax, etc. etc.) to kill the world at least once over. Like the Soviets, he denied it's very existence until the defection of Hussein Kamal in '95. This defection panicked the Iraqi's into admitting they had a bioweapons program and lead to the now infamous "chicken coop" disclosures that detailed the full scope of the program. What was interesting, was that before their disclosure the Iraqi's hid a huge bioweapons production plant "in plain sight," by rigging it up as a fertilizer factory. UNSCOM inspectors didn't know what they were looking at, even as they they were actually walking through the facility. "Germs" then goes on to describe how modern day medical technology has advanced to the degree that "off the shelf" machinery is now available, whose purchase would not raise a lot of red flags and could easily be used to create a very efficient bioweapons program. Imo, this technology is what Rumsfeld refered to recently when he mentioned "mobile" production facilities. Saddam has been totally free from UNSCOM inspection oversight for almost 4 full years. IMO any one who thinks he ain't cranking out bioweapons as we speak is, well.... He's got the scientists. He's done it before. He's got the recipes, and imo he is constantly trying to perfect distribution methods. BTW the "chicken coop" docs revealed he had two working aerosol units suitable for fitting onto aircraft - these were never found. While many may disagree on exactly what to do about Saddam, the whole world has agreed that bioweapons are "evil" and have signed internationally recognized treaties banning their production and use.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (35523)	7/31/2002 5:47:40 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Those "Dirty Rats!" Turns out the Russian Mob fixed the Olympics! A Russian mob figure was arrested today (7/31) and charged with fixing two ice skating competitions at the 2002 Olympics. As alleged in this amazing federal criminal complaint, mafiya boss Alimzan Tokhtakhounov used his influence with members of the Russian and French skating federations in order to rig the outcome of the pairs figure skating and ice dancing events. Tokhtakhounov, arrested today in northern Italy, has been charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit bribery related to sporting contests. The federal case, filed in U.S. District Court in New York, is based chiefly on telephone conversations bugged earlier this year by Italian authorities. Those wiretaps caught Tokhtakhounov speaking with a member of the Russian figure skating federation about the scheme to rig the Olympic events. And while she is not identified by name, it is clear that skater Marina Anissina (and the athlete's mother) also spoke with Tokhtakhounov about the plot. The 26-year-old Anissina, who was born in Russia but emigrated to France in 1993, copped the ice dancing gold medal with partner Gwendal Peizerat. In one wiretapped conversation with the Russian skating official, Tokhtakhounov refers to Anissina as "one of ours." The skating official replied, "Thank you, she will be grateful to you for the rest of her life." Tokhtakhounov's resume includes drug distribution, trafficking in stolen vehicles, illegal gun sales, and the fixing of Moscow beauty pageants, according to FBI and Interpol agents. (8 pages) A Russian mob figure was arrested today (7/31) and charged with fixing two ice skating competitions at the 2002 Olympics. As alleged in this amazing federal criminal complaint, mafiya boss Alimzan Tokhtakhounov used his influence with members of the Russian and French skating federations in order to rig the outcome of the pairs figure skating and ice dancing events. Tokhtakhounov, arrested today in northern Italy, has been charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit bribery related to sporting contests. The federal case, filed in U.S. District Court in New York, is based chiefly on telephone conversations bugged earlier this year by Italian authorities. Those wiretaps caught Tokhtakhounov speaking with a member of the Russian figure skating federation about the scheme to rig the Olympic events. And while she is not identified by name, it is clear that skater Marina Anissina (and the athlete's mother) also spoke with Tokhtakhounov about the plot. The 26-year-old Anissina, who was born in Russia but emigrated to France in 1993, copped the ice dancing gold medal with partner Gwendal Peizerat. In one wiretapped conversation with the Russian skating official, Tokhtakhounov refers to Anissina as "one of ours." The skating official replied, "Thank you, she will be grateful to you for the rest of her life." Tokhtakhounov's resume includes drug distribution, trafficking in stolen vehicles, illegal gun sales, and the fixing of Moscow beauty pageants, according to FBI and Interpol agents. (8 pages) A Russian mob figure was arrested today (7/31) and charged with fixing two ice skating competitions at the 2002 Olympics. As alleged in this amazing federal criminal complaint, mafiya boss Alimzan Tokhtakhounov used his influence with members of the Russian and French skating federations in order to rig the outcome of the pairs figure skating and ice dancing events. Tokhtakhounov, arrested today in northern Italy, has been charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit bribery related to sporting contests. The federal case, filed in U.S. District Court in New York, is based chiefly on telephone conversations bugged earlier this year by Italian authorities. Those wiretaps caught Tokhtakhounov speaking with a member of the Russian figure skating federation about the scheme to rig the Olympic events. And while she is not identified by name, it is clear that skater Marina Anissina (and the athlete's mother) also spoke with Tokhtakhounov about the plot. The 26-year-old Anissina, who was born in Russia but emigrated to France in 1993, copped the ice dancing gold medal with partner Gwendal Peizerat. In one wiretapped conversation with the Russian skating official, Tokhtakhounov refers to Anissina as "one of ours." The skating official replied, "Thank you, she will be grateful to you for the rest of her life." Tokhtakhounov's resume includes drug distribution, trafficking in stolen vehicles, illegal gun sales, and the fixing of Moscow beauty pageants, according to FBI and Interpol agents. (8 pages) thesmokinggun.com