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To: TobagoJack who wrote (186)	8/4/2002 2:43:51 PM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Respond to of 867

Here's another rant, Jay Ethimology of the "Slaves" word: first mentioned in Herodot or something as Sklavenoi, these clans or folks or nations soon became the target of Franks with Charlemagne doing his best to convert the Saxons and then - interrupt... went to check whether it was St Ambrosius who converted the Slaves with fire and sword. So asked Google refs and I tell you Jay it's hard to keep writing because there's so many responses to "igni et gladio" ´[with fire and sword in Latin], mainly (of course -sigh) from Vulgata and other copies of the bible. Anyhow, let's say for the argument sake, it was Ambrosius - end of interrupt - ...Ambrosius came and converted with fire and sword "those slaves" to Christians, brought the survivors back and then the attribute just stuck to everybody that got enslaved. Like if you are the master of the games, you can stick the "nigger" tag on everybody even if he/she is white or yellow or red. Right to these times we (like Slovenes and Croates and Co) are called Sciavi by Italians, when they want to express the chasm between the grandsons and granddaugthers or Roman senators and the common folk on "the other side of the cow fence" - Slaves - we were #1; The real root of the word - different proposals for it, but I like 'slovo' the best: 'word' or 'verb', like in 'slovar' - dictionary, Slaves then meaning "those neighbors I can communicate with". end or rant dj

To: TobagoJack who wrote (186)	8/4/2002 5:25:16 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 867

Jay, it seems that Taiwan is going to leverage the USA WAT into defence of Taiwan independence from China. Which is going to be a bit like New Zealand independence from the USA - true, but not really meaningful. China might as well just ignore Taiwan, let them go independent and wait for them to keep sending their money and people to China to take part in the world's biggest and fastest capital accumulation. nytimes.com <President Chen Shui-bian of Taiwan said today that separate countries now exist on either side of the Taiwan Strait and voiced support for legislation authorizing a referendum to declare Taiwan independent of China, positions that are certain to anger Beijing. Speaking of the Taiwan Strait, less than 100 miles of ocean that separates Taiwan from eastern China, President Chen declared, "Simply put, with Taiwan and China on each side of the strait, each side is a country — this needs to be clear." He made the comment from his office in Taipei, the capital, in a video teleconference with pro-independence Taiwanese in Tokyo. President Chen also lent his support to pro-independence forces in his Democratic Progressive Party who want the national Legislature to approve a law making a plebiscite on independence possible. "I want to sincerely urge and encourage everybody to seriously consider the importance and urgency of passing legislation on a referendum," he said. President Chen's statements are the closest he has come to endorsing independence since taking office two years ago. He did not actually say when or even whether a referendum should be held, but stuck to endorsing legislation to make such a referendum possible. The holding of referendums, he said, "is a basic human right that cannot be withheld or restricted." An official in the Taiwan Affairs Office of the Chinese government in Beijing said this afternoon that the speech had been noticed. "At present it's the weekend, normal staff aren't on duty, so we haven't an official response yet to President Chen Shui-bian's speech, but the Chinese government won't be deviating from the One China principle," said the official, who declined to be named.... contd... > No big deal. Hu Jintao isn't going to get overly excited about that. There's plenty of time to wind them in. Mqurice