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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (36967)	8/11/2002 3:41:50 AM
From: D. Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

However Derek this makes no sense: "As to what I am claiming to recall, I never stated it was personal recollection" Whose recollection, pray tell, was it? It's called reading, Karen. Or can't you recall READING something? The rationing came because of so-called shortages. This was manipulation on the part of Oil companies to drive independents out of business, which they succeeded in doing. The "shortages" were caused by federal price and allocation controls, implemented in Nixon's New Economic Plan. Which was actually implemented in 1971, my mistake for claiming 1973. If you have an ideological ax to grind by continuing on the "it was Big Oil's fault" line, be my guest. You haven't provided any proof for your assertions, however. From the other article you cite: In 2000, when the price of oil rose sharply again, there were no price controls and the impact of another OPEC supply cut was steeply higher prices, but no lines. The year was NOT 2000. It was March 29, 1999, I had just driven from SF to Pleasanton where I stopped to get gas and in the time it took me to get out my credit card the gas price went up ten more cents. Prices in the Bay Area had gone to over $2.00, but the year was 1999. I remember that day because it was also the first time that the Dow closed over 10,000. And this invalidates the point... how? Again Karen, the fact IS - OPEC cut supply to raise prices, and it didn't result in gas lines. In 1973 when OPEC implemented the embargo, if there had not been federal price and allocation controls, the price would have risen, the price system would have directed gas to where it was needed (ie where the price was highest - ie where demand was outstripping supply and profits were higher) and there would have been no lines. No lines because no rationing, no messed up government enforced allocation schemes. As to the rest of your post, you are attempting I take it to make the point that the Arabs "cut off" supply and that caused gas rationing and long lines. Well, yeah in the same sense that getting shot is caused by a trigger. You're own articles prove my point. Yep, the Arabs cut supply. 10%. Hardly what you would call cutting off the spigot. In 79 Iran stopped shipping 4 million barrels a day. In 2001 OPEC cut that much output and we didn't see lines. Why not, Karen? Almost 4 million barrels a day removed from the oil supply and we didn't have a crisis? Because the price was allowed to float, and we paid it at the pump. No supply shortage. guardian.co.uk And yes, mileage standards were passed after 1974 - in 1975 as I stated, by Congress. I expect you remember 9/11/01 quite vividly and will for many years into the future. I guarantee you will find it quite irritating and obnoxious for someone who wasn't there to tell you, "NO, that's not what happened". Writing is an amazing thing. It allows the permanent recording of human events which can be studied by future generations. In our society, anybody who can read can extend the body of his or her knowledge beyond their own limited experience. Bummer. Nobody gets off so easily as saying "I was there" when the facts are available to everybody. Derek

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (36967)	8/11/2002 10:23:55 AM
From: quehubo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The DOE Energy Information Agency provides a good description of the events, the legislation and their effects. Notice that price controls reduced US production in the early 70's. eia.doe.gov Perhaps a basic review of basic economic theory on supply / demand will help some: home.rmci.net Interesting to note that the world is producing roughly 77 mbpd of crude. The USA guzzles roughly 20 MBpd of crude with 8.5 mbpd of gasoline. eia.doe.gov Notice the lack of effort to reduce our dependence on foreign oil through efficiency gains. It seems most of the gains occurred in the 70's with not much improvement since. Our enemies within OPEC must sell large quantities of oil ~$25 WTI in order to survive. We are supporting these Saudi tyrants with our insatiable thirst for gasoline. I wonder how many politicians would survive if they tried to convince the US drivers / voters that a crucial part of the war effort could be reducing fuel consumption through efficiency? OPEC's present control of prices is heavily dependent on our insatiable demand, a 10% improvement in US fuel efficiency would certainly make OPEC's job much harder and benefit our interests. I have no problem with the US engaging in war to keep ME oil fields free from tyrants like Saddam and Islamists like OBL. But prancing around the Saudi's who are actively directly taking actions that have and will continue to cost American lives is not acceptable to me. The Saudi regime is surviving off of our excesses and we will live to regret it. Many families have already paid the ultimate price because of our excesses and poor policy.