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Pastimes : THE SLIGHTLY MODERATED BOXING RING -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (19269)	8/14/2002 5:19:44 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21057

"We've been trying for decades just to get back to the '50s and haven't been able to." I meant the goal of preventing religions from exercising political power; not the goal of getting back to the fifties. "Ah, somehow I doubt you have firsthand experience that allows you to make that statement" I'll say it again in slightly different words: I don't think eitjer you or I can fully appreciate how rare and precious it is to hold beliefs without losing social or political rights or privileges...as you and I have presumably never been denioed such rights. "What, you think I've developed a soft spot in my skull and am now pro-religion" Can I answer that in two parts? <g> "Taxpayers will. They don't get a choice. Taxes aren't optional or voluntary." THe point is: how does this relate to improving the educational product. You are clearly unhappy with the system. At various times you seem to suggest that either throwing more money (or less money) at the system will fix it. But as hard as I have tried to solicit some explicit criticism from you, I have gleaned only that you are pissed at teacher's unions. Again. Will paying a teacher less money improve their performance? Will paying them more money improve their performance? What is it about private schools which encourages you to belive that teachers will become either smarter or more caring? "You could pay more to get an American piece of junk... or less and get a quality Japanese car." Are you suggeswting that Japanese teachers are a beter product and that they will work for less pay? Or are you just rambling? What is the relevance of this to our discussion about teachers? Are the Japanesde bringing out a smaller and more efficient model? "If it can get, rather. "Entitled"? Not hardly" You are obviously a purist; so I will rephrase: Private Industry is motivated to create value in return for a profit...not that they will always create much value or derive much or any profit. Is that better?! <g> "Quit making excuses and pie-in-the-sky promises. What's your solution?" I am not in charge of your educational system and have made no excuse nor do I intend to. Nor have i made you any promises. I cannot suggest a solution for you because you have been uinable to describe for me what you consider the problem to be. Are the teacher's incompetent, insufficiently trained? Are they unmotivated or uncaring? Are they forign agents intent on sabotage? You have told me that you are unhappy with the system and would like to see changes, and you have snapped at unions and such...but I do not know what you identify as the cause of inadequate learning. "What does that mean in English? And why? And if they are going to be competitive later in life, do expect that to turn on suddenly when they enter 9th grade with no preceding preparation or experience? Why?" You're being obstreperous. My meaning was very clear. Children will natutally sort themselves into superior post secondary situations due to social advantages and disavantages as wel as natural aptitude and ability. The suggestion (accepted almost universally) that their BASIC formative educational opportunities should reflect a level playing field and a respect for the concept of equal rights should not require my justification or paraphrasing. And it goes without saying that offering them comparable educational resources says nothing at all about competition. "An educational lottery of some sort might be one idea for putting dream money to work in something of value--the chance for children to compete in usefulness, and thus reward. What does that mean in English?" I sometimes use "usefulness" to refer to employment. Having a job is really about being valuable or useful to someone else. People who sit on the sidelines are really confessing that they do not know how to be useful. When people buy lottery tickets they are dreaming of becoming rich. Educational lotteries would be a fun way to contribute the societies greatest resource. "Ah ! The chant! Educational funding has increased steadily since the late '50s when Federal Aid To Education was passed. What you see is the result." No chant from me. I had asked you for a response to what was wrong and what will fix it, and why. Thus far your responsesd have only served to obscure. "OK. The state will have a small system just to educate them. Does that solve your objection?" I don't have an objection to private secular or religious education. I don't have an objection to publically funded private schools. I am merely trying to identify what you think is broken and how you expect vouchers to improve the delivery of lessons. "What I notice is that by far more of the new scientist and engineers we get are foreign educated" Perhaps you are right. I had read rather decent reports on the American system, but I did not look closely for statistics reflective of grade categories and such. Perhaps I simply happened across some biased reports, or perhaps I did not consider them closely enough. I will try to find some stats on this, but not tonight.