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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (37727)	8/13/2002 10:45:35 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; The way that you get articles from Debka that are "no longer operative" is by doing a google search specific to the Debka web site. To do this, you add a *site:debka.com* to the search. The following search is for *site:debka.com attack iraq* : google.com Once you get the hits, the ones that show that Debka has zero connection to reality will no longer work (or they'll give their latest version of reality, not the one that now, in the hindsight of history, was obviously a fantasy playmate view of the world). So to get the funny material (examples: the US is going to nuke Afghanistan, that Saddam Hussein's tanks blinded 5000 Iranians with lasers), don't use the regular link, instead use the subtle little "cached" button towards the end. Not all obsolete articles are available this way, but there are other ways of getting the same information. Here are some cool Debka predictions, straight from the Google caches of their website (these are single articles pulled from very long text files, so if you want to look for their brilliant analysis, click on these links and go for it). I've highlighted the dates for their various versions of when the Iraq conflict would begin (with bombs over Baghdad, of course): US Prepares to Take on Iraq Debka, 15 December, 2001 The action is tentatively scheduled for mid-January. 216.239.33.100 US Plants Small Military Foot in Iraq, Sets up Staging Post in Georgia Debka, 23 February, 2002 America’s promised full-scale offensive against Iraq has been launched with small, discreet military steps. On January 4, our intelligence newsletter DEBKA-Net-Weekly (Issue 43) predicted the campaign would begin in February. On Friday, February 15, the first American Special Forces moved into northern Iraq from Turkey, a development first picked up by the Japanese paper Sankei Shimbun on February 20 and confirmed by our sources. 216.239.33.100 -- Carl P.S. I'm having difficulty posting, I may have to look at your examples of Debka brilliance later.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (37727)	8/13/2002 10:50:32 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; More Debka foolishment, US to nuke Afghanistan, Egypt to join Israel against Arafat, Iraq added blinding lasers to their tanks: US Withdraws, Leaving Afghan Battle Unresolved Is Tactical Nuclear Option Open? Debka, March 10, 2002 ... 3. The turn of events in Paktia brings forward the prospect, revived this week, of the use of tactical nuclear weapons in the global war on terror. (This possibility was first disclosed in our intelligence newsletter DEBKA-Net-Weekly in early October 2001, three times in the course of the same month in DEBKAfile and again on November 26, 2001). ... DEBKAfile’s military experts recall in this regard the announcement made by the American deputy secretary of state for disarmament, John Bolton, on February 21 that Washington had decided to depart from its traditional policy of nuclear non-use against non-nuclear powers. The exceptions would be made in the cases of terrorists, their sponsors and states developing weapons of mass destruction. ... D. The US armed forces are looking harder at the development of small nuclear bombs for tactical use. Given the setbacks in Tora Bora and the Shah-e-Kot Valley - for lack of intelligence and reliable Afghan allied troops - US military planners may lean further towards the use of tactical nuclear weapons to finish off the Taliban and al Qaeda strongholds still defying conventional means of warfare. 216.239.33.100 Egypt Opts for US-Israel-Jordan Bloc Against Arafat Amid Israeli Preparations for Major Offensive Debka, January 29, 2002 216.239.33.100 Also see: chp.ca english.pravda.ru This one's a hoot, but I couldn't find it on the Debka site: American preparations for a major offensive against Iraq are massive and continuous, set in place layer by layer -- but sources say a seven-nation attack on Saddam Hussein is not likely before mid- to late-February. ... Iraq used a primitive version of this laser weapon mounted on tanks in its war against Iran in the late 1980s. Although inexperienced in its operation at the time, Iraqi forces were able to inflict more than 5,000 Iranian casualties, most permanently blinded or victims of internal organ damage. [BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!] ... On impact, the spacecraft was to explode and spray the satellites with an adhesive substance that would render their cameras and surveillance equipment useless. [JESUS WEEPS, I AM!!!] ... Source: debka.com embargos.de -- Carl

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (37727)	8/14/2002 12:47:34 AM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "debka reported in December that many Al Qaeda had slipped from Tora Bora into Pakistan (including OBL they said), ..." Here's the article, the problem is that by this late date it was obvious that Al Qaeda was no longer in Tora Bora (the US was, LOL!!!). Debka's statement simply isn't showing anything new, as a read of the Washington Post reveals: Al Qaeda Fighters Skip Tora Bora – No Sign of Bin Laden Debka, December 15, 2001 DEBKAfile’s military sources report that over the last 48 hours, most of the al Qaeda fighters holed up in the caves of the Tora Bora mountains were able to creep past the siege thrown round the area by US-backed local Pashtun tribesmen, known as the Eastern Front, and make their way into Pakistan. They must also have slipped past Pakistani army contingents posted on the mountain passes for the impossible mission of cutting off their escape through the 1,400 mile frontier. Osama bin Laden’s men used donkeys and mules to move back and forth between the two sides of the frontier atop the rugged mountains. They would have found sanctuary among the Pashtun clans controlling the tribal areas on the Pakistani side. The last al Qaeda, an estimated 600 men, were ordered to get out of the Tora Bora area of east Pakistan Saturday, December 15. By the end of the day, less than half remained. Their last battle therefore was not for the purpose of defending bin Laden and top al Qaeda commanders, as widely reported. DEBKAfile’s intelligence and military sources have repeatedly reported that the Saudi-born terrorist and senior commanders were gone before the assault on Tora Bora began. 216.239.33.100 Text: Pentagon Briefing with Stufflebeam and Clarke Admiral Stufflebeam, Washington Post, Nov. 28, 2001 We know there are non-Taliban forces there as well who have already broadcast their intentions to dig in and fight to the death. But we also know that there are Taliban forces that, in fact, are fleeing. We know that they are headed toward and have crossed into Pakistan, for instance. washingtonpost.com December 12, 2001 Bin Laden was sighted in the area as recently as Monday, according to another Afghan commander, Hazrat Ali, while other leaders said they feared he had fled through the snowcapped ranges into Pakistan. washingtonpost.com -- Carl

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (37727)	8/14/2002 12:48:29 AM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "... and others were being given safe passage via Iran back home into Saudi Arabia." I didn't see this confirmed anywhere. Re: "Starting last fall, Debka reported that despite appearances and denials, Saudi Arabia would give us no cooperation on the War on Terror, and they haven't." This is spin. I can find plenty of official links from DefenseLINK.mil where the US government says otherwise. Re: "Debka reported that Hizbullah was building lines of missiles in Lebanon, and through Imad Mugnieh was increasing its cooperation both with Al Qaeda fighters and with Hamas." This has been going on for some time now, and still no significant use of missiles against Israel, and no Israeli invasion of Lebanon to destroy those missiles (as was predicted by Debka). Re: "... as have the more advanced Palestinian attacks against Merkava tanks." Debka never predicted that the Palestinians would begin destroying Israeli tanks. Instead, they reported it when it first happened: Al Qaeda’s First Intifada Appearance Debka, February 15, 2002 An Israeli tank was blown up for the first time Thursday night, killing three soldiers. A huge explosion ripped off its turret and split the 65-ton Merkava (Chariot) 3 in two as it charged up the Karni-Netzarim route in the Gaza Strip to reach a civilian bus under Palestinian gunfire. ... [Bilow: The rest of the article is speculation on how it was done.] 216.239.33.100 Also see: 216.239.33.100 Re: "Debka reported that the IDF had developed "tunneling" techniques that it was using to attack the guerilla bases in Palestinian refugee camps, and that the technique worked, so that the refugee camps were no longer "no go" areas, before the fight in Jenin confirmed it." I got no hits on Debka for "tunneling". Maybe you're thinking of something else, or more likely they used another word for it. -- Carl

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (37727)	8/14/2002 12:51:26 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "Debka recently reported that the Turks captured an airbase in northen Iraq, and American bases have been set up in eastern Jordan, others confirmed it." Here's the news from Debka: 2. Two days later, on Wednesday night, August 8, Turkey executed its first major military assault inside Iraq. DEBKAfile’s military sources learn from Turkish and Kurdish informants that helicopters under US, British and Turkish warplane escort flew Turkish commandos to an operation for seizing the critical Bamerni airport in northern Iraq. This airport, just outside the Kurdish region, lies 50 miles north of the big Iraqi oil cities of the north, Kirkuk and Mosul. With the Turkish commandos was a group of US special forces officers and men. Bamerni airport was captured after a brief battle in which a unit of Iraqi armored defenders was destroyed, opening the airport for giant American and Turkish transports to deliver engineering units, heavy machinery and electronic support equipment, which were put to work at once on enlarging the field and widening its landing strips. The American unit, reinforced, went on to capture two small Iraqi military airfields nearby. The Turkish expeditionary force in northern Iraq now numbers some 5,000 men, in addition to Turkish air force contingents. (temp) debka.com And sure enough, Turkey does have 5,000 men (and tanks) in Kurdistan. Here's verification from the Kurdish Observer: Turkish military is playing dangerous Kurdish Observer, July 17, 2001 ... 5,000 soldiers in the South Meanwhile, it has been reported that 5,000 Turkish soldiers and 100 tanks have crossed into South Kurdistan. It was reported that the aforementioned tanks and soldiers were positioned in the Qoysanjak region, while 12 TIR trucks, said to be civilian, entered the city of Suleymaniya. ... kurdishobserver.com The only problem is that the Kurdish Observer is from a year before the Debka article. I wouldn't call that timely. Plus, Debka is deliberately bamboozling their readers by failing to mention that (1) Turkish actions against the Kurds are ongoing, or (2) that Turkey has a longstanding agreement with Iraq allowing this. Turkey is taking care of their (and Baghdad's) business, not toppling Saddam (like Debka wants to believe). You want logic? If these actions are so much against Iraq, then how come Iraq isn't making a big ruckus at the UN? The truth is that Debka's breaking news story is ancient history. *Now when was it that Turkey moved into Bamerni??? August 8th, you say, according to Debka??? Why don't you click on these links and find out how many years the Turks have been in Bamerni:* burn.ucsd.edu burn.ucsd.edu burn.ucsd.edu BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LOL!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! This is a classic example of what Debka does. They take some unimportant military detail, like the importation of gas mask components into Israel, and blow it all out of proportion. Now, if Debka is so f'ing brilliant, and so together on what is going on in the Middle East, then why didn't they tell you that the Turks have been in Bamerni for 4 years, and that Turkey had twice as many men in Iraq 4 years ago as they have now? Answer: They're not trying to educate anyone, they're just a right wing Israeli fantasy playmate organization. They're living in dream land. -- Carl