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To: The Vet who wrote (88805)	8/15/2002 10:53:44 AM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

bias, agenda? This is not apparent to this fool. OK let's start again. The contrail data is not unverified. It is comparison of no flying to flying for apparently enough time to draw a conclusion about water vapour's effects from man made sources in the atmosphere and its effects on heating of the atmosphere. It is apparently a positive conclusion that there is a measurable effect from the jets in our skies. I recall the question being asked 40 years ago, but it seemed unanswerable or perhaps alarmist to me then.. Then the comparison is drawn between the AMOUNT of the contrail effect and the AMOUNT of a similar emission, i..e. carbon dioxide, other gases and and acid rain droplets. The greenhouse emission spectra which includes freon. It is apparent that comparitively, the greenhouse gases are greater in total amount as a percentage of the atmosphere. Does this lead to the conclusion that there must be an effect, despite the fact that unlike the jet contrail data we do not have a control group so to speak? Well since the effects are different "chemically" at least in part, then not exactly. But the "amount" equations must make us suspicious given that a reaction depends in part on quantity as well as things like K of reaction etc... So you did not like the rhetorical device "any fool can see". Well gotcha. You could say. "ahh but I did not see.".. ergo you are not a fool, or perhaps a fool but we are wrong, and fools have trouble seeing it.. so it may be a tad complex... perhaps it is.. It just seemed to me that if a few jets may make such a difference to the heat in our atmosphere, then the scads of carbon dioxide that we pour forth as waste from fossil fuels just on sheer amount must have an effect. We overlooked this with jet exhausts.. perhaps prejudiciously... are we making the same mistake in dismissing CO2. methane and its friends from sua culpa?

To: The Vet who wrote (88805)	8/15/2002 8:44:50 PM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

apples and oranges (or) apples or oranges (or) nuts (or) . To:E. Charters From: The Vet Thursday, August 15, 2002 ... comments like "it should be apparent to any fool" that expose your bias and agenda... You may be right, but... You then berate and belittle your readers... ... this sort of remark is the height of hypocrisy (IMHO of course)... [stop.] . Vet, . no no no But before i explain ask for that story told on Uncle Bill thread of the bird in ice cold weather with the sun shining making the air seem warm while not... and later the elephant & cat and who really is a friendly. . imagine those sights & sounds made by E.C. yes but remove E.C. from this and imagine yourself inside that House of Mirrors where images are tuned & twisted just like reality and the reflections are of yourself moving and changing as interactions with this called reality life in the big city or life is unfair or ... now, shout & scream at what you see but wait, its your reflection s that which you see as life bounced back onto you not E.C. as he only holds up mirrors them mirrors of life that are twisted where today it seems a flat mirror exist only in hope mainly, false hope so, cry out not towards E.C. as he is the question to your answers but your answers were reactions not replies to questions or, E.C. are echo(s) we do not heard but could if we open our minds or each brain wide (extra) i heard once that each time the usa space shuttle takes off that it pumps into the air equal to bad stuff equal to what a company if did would go to jail d:oug