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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (16477)	8/18/2002 10:04:01 PM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 23908

Thanks for coming in and clarifying this issue. I’m stubborn, I’m still waiting for those apologies from many posters – as well as from many major publications – for that wild great world - wide anti-Israeli and Judophobic hysteria on the subject of the great Jenin ‘nossacre’ BTW, what did you think about our today’s extensive analysis of Arafat’s relative assets, and his investment acumen? -bg

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (16477)	8/18/2002 10:58:32 PM
From: Eashoa' M'sheekha	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

If My Memory Serves....... You will recall the term " massacre " was attributed to an interview on CNN of a Pal. representative being interviewed and saying he thought the number dead could be as high as 500. NEVER in the interview did he state there was a " massacre " and never did he use the term " massacre ". However,the JP reported that he stated there was a "massacre " ,and that's where the whole thing got started and snowballed from there. This was discussed at length on the FADG , but it was sometime well after the hullabaloo that these facts came to the forefront. THAT"S what I meant by the " The origin of the Jenin " massacre " story ". I am aware of events during and after and we discussed them at length on the FADG as well. My post was to clarify the issue regarding the origin of the term " massacre " relating to Jenin , since many were quick to scoff at the whole affair in cynical fashion afterward ,using the terms " nossacre " and " Jeningrad " , which I find equally repulsive and insensitive, given the roots mentioned. Does that clarify things? PS: If necessary I can try to dig up the information from that time period when I get an op.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (16477)	8/19/2002 6:39:37 PM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 23908

No Israeli paper reported a "massacre". No Israelis would believe such a story. Incorrect. <<< Without the claim that Palestinians explicitly accused the Israelis of killing 500, the main accusation from supporters of Israel and the media is that Palestinians alleged a "massacre." Although Erekat and several other Palestinian officials did later use the term "massacre," the first person to whom it was publicly attributed is Israeli foreign minister Shimon Peres in an article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz on April 9, 2002, under the headline "Peres calls IDF operation in Jenin a 'massacre'". Peres is also quoted saying "When the world sees the pictures of what we have done there, it will do us immense damage." There is no scientific or precise definition of a massacre, and no rule that says that hundreds must be killed before an event qualifies as such. "Massacre" is a subjective term and certainly for those who live through it the killing of 'only' dozens would qualify. Perhaps it is for this reason that Israeli officials routinely refer to Palestinian attacks which kill 20 or fewer people as "massacres." >>> electronicintifada.net Foreign Minister Shimon Peres Peres is very worried about the expected international reaction as soon as the world learns the details of the tough battle in the Jenin refugee camps, where more than 100 Palestinians have already been killed in fighting with IDF forces. In private, Peres is referring to the battle as a "massacre." IDF officers also expressed grave reservations Monday over the operation in Jenin. "Because of the dangers," they said, "the soldiers are almost not advancing on foot. The bulldozers are simply 'shaving' the homes and causing terrible destruction. When the world sees the pictures of what we have done there, it will do us immense damage." "However many wanted men we kill in the refugee camp, and however much of the terror infrastructure we expose and destroy there, there is still no justification for causing such great destruction." Peres, who is feeling increasingly isolated in the government - Sharon added three hardline ministers to his cabinet Monday - believes Arafat is still irreplaceable at this stage. He does not regard the documents that Sharon presented Monday in the Knesset as a "smoking gun" that irrefutably proves that Arafat was directly linked to ordering terrorist activity. And Israel's isolation of the Palestinian leader, he believes, only enhanced his prestige and turned him into the key player. Despite his harsh criticism, however, and his belief that Labor will not be able to remain much longer in the government, Peres is in no hurry to quit. He is telling his closest associates that after the fighting ends and U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell has visited, the decision will be made. If Powell presents a political plan, Labor will want to fight for it in the government. By Aluf Benn Amos Harel, Ha'aretz Correspondents electronicintifada.net