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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Raymond Duray who wrote (5913)9/9/2002 2:17:53 AM
From: jjkirk  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
Re: What's Iqbal aiming for?

Gosh, Ray. I don't know. Why don't you just ask him? Goodnight...jj



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (5913)9/9/2002 1:28:08 PM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 89467
 
In War, Some 'Facts' Are Less Than Factual

By Scott Peterson
Staff Writer
The Christian Science Monitor
9-8-02

MOSCOW - When George H. W. Bush ordered American forces to the Persian Gulf - to reverse Iraq's August 1990 invasion of Kuwait - part of the administration case was that an Iraqi juggernaut was also threatening to roll into Saudi Arabia. Citing top-secret satellite images, Pentagon officials estimated in mid-September that up to 250,000 Iraqi troops and 1,500 tanks stood on the border, threatening the key US oil supplier.

But when the St. Petersburg Times in Florida acquired two commercial Soviet satellite images of the same area, taken at the same time, no Iraqi troops were visible near the Saudi border - just empty desert.

"It was a pretty serious fib," says Jean Heller, the Times journalist who broke the story.

The White House is now making its case. to Congress and the public for another invasion of Iraq; President George W. Bush is expected to present specific evidence of the threat posed by Iraq during a speech to the United Nations next week.

But past cases of bad intelligence or outright disinformation used to justify war are making experts wary. The questions they are raising, some based on examples from the 1991 Persian Gulf War, highlight the importance of accurate information when a democracy considers military action.

"My concern in these situations, always, is that the intelligence that you get is driven by the policy, rather than the policy being driven by the intelligence," says former US Rep. Lee Hamilton (D) of Indiana, a 34-year veteran lawmaker until 1999, who served on numerous foreign affairs and intelligence committees, and is now director of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington. The Bush team "understands it has not yet carried the burden of persuasion [about an imminent Iraqi threat], so they will look for any kind of evidence to support their premise," Mr. Hamilton says. "I think we have to be skeptical about it."

Examining the evidence

Shortly before US strikes began in the Gulf War, for example, the St. Petersburg Times asked two experts to examine the satellite images of the Kuwait and Saudi Arabia border area taken in mid-September 1990, a month and a half after the Iraqi invasion. The experts, including a former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst who specialized in desert warfare, pointed out the US build-up - jet fighters standing wing-tip to wing-tip at Saudi bases - but were surprised to see almost no sign of the Iraqis.

"That [Iraqi buildup] was the whole justification for Bush sending troops in there, and it just didn't exist," Ms. Heller says. Three times Heller contacted the office of Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney (now vice president) for evidence refuting the Times photos or analysis - offering to hold the story if proven wrong.

The official response: "Trust us." To this day, the Pentagon's photographs of the Iraqi troop buildup remain classified.

After the war, the House Armed Services Committee issued a report on lessons learned from the Persian Gulf War. It did not specifically look at the early stages of the Iraqi troop buildup in the fall, when the Bush administration was making its case to send American forces. But it did conclude that at the start of the ground war in February, the US faced only 183,000 Iraqi troops, less than half the Pentagon estimate. In 1996, Gen. Colin Powell, who is secretary of state today, told the PBS documentary program Frontline: "The Iraqis may not have been as strong as we thought they were...but that doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me. We put in place a force that would deal with it - whether they were 300,000, or 500,000."

John MacArthur, publisher of Harper's Magazine and author of "Second Front: Censorship and Propaganda in the Gulf War," says that considering the number of senior officials shared by both Bush administrations, the American public should bear in mind the lessons of Gulf War propaganda.

"These are all the same people who were running it more than 10 years ago," Mr. MacArthur says. "They'll make up just about anything ... to get their way."

On Iraq, analysts note that little evidence so far of an imminent threat from Mr. Hussein's weapons of mass destruction has been made public.

Critics, including some former United Nations weapons inspectors in Iraq, say no such evidence exists. Mr. Bush says he will make his decision to go to war based on the "best" intelligence.

"You have to wonder about the quality of that intelligence," says Mr. Hamilton at Woodrow Wilson.

"This administration is capable of any lie ... in order to advance its war goal in Iraq," says a US government source in Washington with some two decades of experience in intelligence, who would not be further identified. "It is one of the reasons it doesn't want to have UN weapons inspectors go back in, because they might actually show that the probability of Iraq having [threatening illicit weapons] is much lower than they want us to believe."

The roots of modern war propaganda reach back to British World War II stories about German troops bayoneting babies, and can be traced through the Vietnam era and even to US campaigns in Somalia and Kosovo.

While the adage has it that "truth is the first casualty of war," senior administration officials say they cherish their credibility, and would not lie.

In a press briefing last September, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld noted occasions during World War II when false information about US troop movements was leaked to confuse the enemy. He paraphrased Winston Churchill, saying: "Sometimes the truth is so precious it must be accompanied by a bodyguard of lies."

But he added that "my fervent hope is that we will be able to manage our affairs in a way that that will never happen. And I am 69 years old and I don't believe it's ever happened that I have lied to the press, and I don't intend to start now."

Last fall, the Pentagon secretly created an "Office of Strategic Influence." But when its existence was revealed, the ensuing media storm over reports that it would launch disinformation campaigns prompted its official closure in late February.

Commenting on the furor, President Bush pledged that the Pentagon will "tell the American people the truth."

Critics familiar with the precedent set in recent decades, however, remain skeptical. They point, for example, to the Office of Public Diplomacy run by the State Department in the 1980s. Using staff detailed from US military "psychological operations" units, it fanned fears about Nicaragua's leftist Sandinista regime with false "intelligence" leaks.

Besides placing a number of proContra, antiSandinista stories in the national US media as part of a "White Propaganda" campaign, that office fed the Miami Herald a make-believe story that the Soviet Union had given chemical weapons to the Sandinistas. Another tale - which happened to emerge the night of President Ronald Reagan's reelection victory - held that Soviet MiG fighters were on their way to Nicaragua.

The office was shut down in 1987, after a report by the US Comptroller-General found that some of their efforts were "prohibited, covert propaganda activities."

More recently, in the fall of 1990, members of Congress and the American public were swayed by the tearful testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only as Nayirah.

In the girl's testimony before a congressional caucus, well-documented in MacArthur's book "Second Front" and elsewhere, she described how, as a volunteer in a Kuwait maternity ward, she had seen Iraqi troops storm her hospital, steal the incubators, and leave 312 babies "on the cold floor to die."

Seven US Senators later referred to the story during debate; the motion for war passed by just five votes. In the weeks after Nayirah spoke, President Bush senior invoked the incident five times, saying that such "ghastly atrocities" were like "Hitler revisited."

But just weeks before the US bombing campaign began in January, a few press reports began to raise questions about the validity of the incubator tale.

Later, it was learned that Nayirah was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to Washington and had no connection to the Kuwait hospital.

She had been coached - along with the handful of others who would "corroborate" the story - by senior executives of Hill and Knowlton in Washington, the biggest global PR firm at the time, which had a contract worth more than $10 million with the Kuwaitis to make the case for war.

"We didn't know it wasn't true at the time," Brent Scowcroft, Bush's national security adviser, said of the incubator story in a 1995 interview with the London-based Guardian newspaper. He acknowledged "it was useful in mobilizing public opinion."

Intelligence as political tool

Selective use of intelligence information is not particular to any one presidential team, says former Congressman Hamilton.

"This is not a problem unique to George Bush. It's every president I've known, and I've worked with seven or eight of them," Hamilton says. "All, at some time or another, used intelligence to support their political objectives.

"Information is power, and the temptation to use information to achieve the results you want is almost overwhelming," he says. "The whole intelligence community knows exactly what the president wants [regarding Iraq], and most are in their jobs because of the president - certainly the people at the top - and they will do everything they can to support the policy.

"I'm always skeptical about intelligence," adds Hamilton, who has been awarded medallions from both the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency. "It's not as pure as the driven snow."

csmonitor.com



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (5913)9/11/2002 2:59:42 AM
From: jjkirk  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 89467
 
Mr. Duray re: Your disparaging comments regarding Mr. Iqbal Latif and a yours truly on these threads, I quote:

Let me get this straight. An Internet personality suggests that Benazir Bhutto welcomed being overthrown and tossed out of power by a military coup? Look, I may have been born at night, but it sure wasn't last night. That one was weak,
jj. Try harder. Facts trump flowery, fanciful and mellifluous prose any day. What's Iqbal aiming for? A Nobel Prize in fiction?


I was surprised and disappointed that a man of your self-proclaimed intellectual prowess did not have the courage to directly question Mr. Latif on his writings, as I suggested. You are not intimidated by him, are you? You are? Pity!

Then, perhaps you would appreciate these efforts to address your concerns. I shall give you facts as you requested, with three of the many references available to any intellectually active, honest man who cares to search the web.

Mr. Duray, you need to learn how to read. Please excuse the directness of that comment, but I thought it appropriate here, since it applies here and since you use it yourself in dealing with others who do not read.

Re: your comment: that [Mr. Latif] suggests that Benazir Bhutto welcomed being overthrown and tossed out of power by a military coup?

Mrs. Bhutto was not thrown out of power by a military coup. Mr. Latif did not claim that she was. You, Mr. Duray, made up that false statement out of whole cloth, so that you could easily disprove it; or, you were ignorant of the facts, take your pick.

Please read the following excerpts from the Toronto Sun:

Both Benazir and her husband, Asif Ali Zadari, who has been in prison since she was ousted from office
in 1996 for corruption, have been sentenced to five years in prison. Benazir is currently living in exile
with her children in a two-room flat in London , pending the outcome of her High Court appeal next month.
twf.org

Mrs. Butto left office in 1996. The military coup was in 1999. You, Mr. Duray, a man ignorant of these simple facts, dare to challenge a courageous and valuable gentleman from Pakistan regarding the political history of his country? In fact, most Pakistani's welcomed the military coup. Read on:

While the outside world wrung its hands over the latest crisis for Pakistan's so-called `democracy,' this
act of political amputation was greeted with joy by most Pakistanis, who were fed up by the
incompetence, growing corruption, and increasingly autocratic behavior of the highly unpopular Nawaz
government. The military appeared to have once again rescued Pakistan from itself. ...

...At a press conference in London on October 19 [1999] Bhutto acknowledged that she had made contact with the army after the coup, seeking safe passage to return to Pakistan. Justifying the coup, she said that Sharif “created conditions” for the military take over. “He has
sought to dismantle democracy...When he attacked the army there was a
perception that he was politicizing the last non-political institution in the
country. The army reacted,” she said. Bhutto hailed the coup leader,
General Musharraf, as “a courageous and bold professional, committed
to civilian order.”

twf.org

Finally, Mr. Duray, before I whistle for the turnup truck you just fell from, please read this:

Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, speaking to a
symposium in Toronto, Canada on November 8, said, “General
Musharraf's intentions look honest when he says that he will be fair in his
approach and that he is motivated by patriotism.”
Bhutto's remarks,
reported by the Pakistani newspaper Dawn, concerned the military chief
who took power in a coup overthrowing the government of Prime
Minister Nawaz Sharif on October 12. Her speech reflected the common
approach of the major political parties in Pakistan to the military
overthrow.
wsws.org

Mr. Duray, please speak of only those things with which you have knowledge. Thank you for your patience in reading this.

I remain, under God,
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jjkirk