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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (43562)	9/12/2002 6:51:24 PM
From: stockman_scott	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The U.S. may have cynically taunted the USSR into the Afghan adventure... fair.org

To: Bilow who wrote (43562)	9/12/2002 7:05:22 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Say, Carl, why don't you wait until at least a year has gone by before rewriting history? Before Afghanistan, we received help from Britain, and a little lip service from NATO and the UN -- just as we are in the process of getting now. The same people who are predicting Iraq will be a quagmire predicted Afghanistan would be a quagmire. Remember "the brutal Afghan winter" and "the fearsome Afghan warrior, death of empires"? The Taliban (who are not Arabs, btw) were supposed to have fanatic support from all the Pushtuns. And the surrounding countries (I presume you refer to Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Russia) cooperated, not because they favored the idea, but because we exercised some friendly persuasion. Friendly persuasion works in the Middle East too, Carl. Watch what they do, not what their diplomats say. Qattar signed the Arab League opposition and sent its diplomats out to oppose us. So if they're refusing to aid us, why did CENTCOM just move forward to Qattar? Hint: maybe they're really aiding us. As for US public opinion, it's for going into Iraq to oust Saddam, according the latest Pew poll, 64% favor it. That's more than favored the first Gulf War.

To: Bilow who wrote (43562)	9/12/2002 7:06:59 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Now why don't you give your thoughts behind: "... Iraq, which will be far less challenging than Afghanistan?" I was talking about rebuilding Iraq, rather than fighting it. As you know. You were the one who brought up rebuilding Japan and Germany, so you had to know. With respect to rebuilding Germany, the New York Times just reviewed a new book about the fall of Berlin. After the Russians were through with the Germans and the Prussians, the defeated were smashed flat. Sure, Germany was the land of Beethoven and Schiller, but for years, real intellectuals were hounded out of the universities and out of the country, and only party hacks survived in academe and the arts. nytimes.com With respect to fighting Iraq, I agree with all your points but #2 and #3. (2) Afghanistan was surrounded by countries that supported US intervention, Iraq apparently has none. Wrong. Israel is the obvious exception, but we also have the support of Russia, Kuwait, Qatar, Jordan, and Turkey, at a minimum, all countries which surround or are near Iraq. We will also have the tacit support of Iran, and possibly Georgia. (3) The US had UN, NATO, and EU support in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Those countries which oppose the unilateral use of force will sign on if the UN Security Council oks it. If the UN Security Council doesn't ok it, I predict that we will go in anyway. The only thing which might stop us would be for the UN Security Counsel to rule that they don't really want Iraq to comply with all the unmet resolutions.

To: Bilow who wrote (43562)	9/12/2002 7:52:08 PM
From: quehubo	Respond to of 281500

<<due to the lack of a reason to fight, >> Reasons to fight 1) As Bush has noted, the UN is at a defining moment. Either the UN says "comply or else" now, or they wait for Saddam to say "xxx or else" once he amasses his WMD to a critical state. 2) Saudia Arabia to the left and Iran to the right. Divide our enemies down the middle. 3) Start the flow of the Iraqi Black Gold, thus weakening SA & Iran. Use the money to restore life to the Iraqi's who have suffered enough under Saddam's jackboot.