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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (43779)	9/13/2002 6:19:49 PM
From: maceng2	Respond to of 281500

Do you know roughly what the casualty figures were for the whole Troubles? re:- Protestant killing Protestants vs Catholic killing Catholics. I have no idea. Maybe I can check up on these numbers and let you know. No problem in measuring terrorist activity quotient. If a problem is identified and measured, it is halfway solved in my book -g-

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (43779)	9/13/2002 6:21:03 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Ze'ev Schiff of Ha'aretz thinks that the Palestinians realize they've lost the intifada (most of them anyway), and that Fuad Ben Eliezer thinks it's time to open a "political horizon" to them, but he will leave the government because Arik Sharon is intent on full Palestinian surrender and Fuad is powerless to change Arik's course. In the last operation, the IDF in effect re-occupied the Palestinian Authority areas. The Palestinian security organizations collapsed, and terrorists from all the various groups are on the run and in hiding. Hundreds of them were killed and thousands more are under arrest. The IDF proved its strength and determination to the Palestinians and to the Arabs in general. The Palestinians have a sense of failure and are doing some serious soul-searching about the violent path Arafat chose. The criticism is coming from the grass roots and the mid-level leaders. New channels of negotiations with Israel are opening. But there is still a danger of terrible terror attacks by those opposed to the change. Ben-Eliezer believes we have reached a crossroads, where Israel has to present a reasonable political plan to the Palestinians, not just to kill or capture terrorists, but to develop what is commonly called "a political horizon" for Israel and the Palestinians. But the dominant view in the government is to continue the military pressure on the Palestinians, to drive them to total surrender. haaretzdaily.com I think Sharon has the right idea. Nasty as it is to keep pressing the Palestinians when they're down, it's necessary; otherwise, the Pals will declare yet another Arab "Pyrrhic loss", the militants will claim victory, and Arafat will have survived again. Also, it is perfectly insane for the Israelis to make any offers now, on the eve of the American war in Iraq. Not only should they wait to see what the Mideast looks like after this war is over before making any offers; the most likely upshot of a successful American war is immense pressure on America and Israel to begin yet another Mideast peace process. Who offer stuff now before you have to? you will only move the starting post further away from your own advantage. Who would you offer it to, anyway? Since the Palestinians are congenitally unable to dump even an atrocious leader, getting rid of Arafat and his thugs is going to be a long slow process, even best-case.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (43779)	9/13/2002 6:22:45 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "I'm trying to get a sense for how the British media covered such killings, compared to the Mideast. I know the BBC calls the IRA "terrorists" whenever they set off a car bomb, but they have a standing policy that calls Palestinian bombers "militants"." Well when the other guy is blowing up your guys, it's only human nature to call them terrorists, but a few years afterwards, when you negotiate a political deal that involves giving them "prisoner of war" status, you call them a "movement". And, of course, you never say "terrorist" when talking about your own (Protestant loyalist) terrorists: bbc.co.uk By the way, this isn't torture, according to the Brits: bbc.co.uk -- Carl