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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cosmicforce who wrote (58829)	9/19/2002 2:49:55 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Patience is a virtue in this regard and I can wait to find out." On that we agree. However, we are polarized on most other issues. The sure limits we have placed on existence have time and time again been shown to be flawed. So, you are wise to consider the possibilities of existence beyond the current definitions. In order to place limits we must measure or at least speculate what was before and what is beyond those limits. As we approach the limits of what was before the before or beyond the furthest beyond we find a quandary that must be dealt with. What was before that and what could possibly be beyond that. In practical reality we cannot touch or observe what was before even this moment. We have resources and we have evidence of a space and time the we call history but we have never "time traveled." We have expectations for a future but no one has seen or touched future space and times. We have and always will live in the moment, in the eternal moment. We know what time is but we really can't prove it in the physical sense we can only find referencial evidence of it. It is an abstract, a temporal abstract that helps us understand our experience in the temporal universe. Of course the temporal universe is a place where everything carries its temporary nature. It is a place where illusion is easier to prove than absolute physical realities through the fullness of time. If we imagine to the furthest limits of the physical universe and the most initial beginnings of time we are left with a question mark. Was something there before? What something and what before? A big bang idea does not stop the questions because it implies that there was a something that banged and there was a before the bang. A never ending before the before and stuff beyond the beyond doesn't satisfy the questions either because it implies a never ending cause and effect universe. That would be a type of eternity but an unsatisfactory one since we all see the limits of the temporal universe from moment to moment and an eternal universe does not follow the laws of physics that it operates under. Every time we invent a more powerful method of exploring the depths of an atom we find that innerspace is extended beyond our previously imagined limits. Our awareness of abstract ideas and forms defies limitation as well. The only way that the universe could have come into existence is if its cause did not follow the laws governing temporal spacial time and matter. Something undefinable by the laws we use to describe the limits of the temporal universe. Something beyond the limits of physical brain power that would be required to know perfectly and absolutely all there is to know. And something powerful enough to establish and maintain all of physical existence without the effort needed even to take one breath. Something before the before and beyond the beyond. To use the cliche the alpha and the omega of existence. The components of the physical universe of space and time can be as easily disproven as proven using conventional techniques. The are as easily understood as convenient illusion as for their material practicality. You find convincing evidence for and choose to believe that the material is all that can be known with surety. Yet you must establish certain presumptions to hold that belief. I find convincing evidence and choose to believe that there is a beyond the beyond that is as real as this temporal existence. I have tried to compare and contrast here without discounting your position entirely. I hope you agree. Feel free to comment at your leasure. With Respect, JOTW