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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (45342)	9/19/2002 12:37:31 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

No, I think his thesis has to do with the transformation of Christianity as the demographics shift toward the Third World. He's talking about the characteristics of the beliefs, and how that will affect other Christians. I mentioned two of his observations - as the Catholic Church becomes more dominated by Latin Americans and Africans, the heirarchy will shift to reflect that. It is possible that we will have an African pope or a Latino pope in my lifetime. Also, because more Africans are becoming Christian, especially fundamentalist Christian, he believes that there will be a clash between them and Muslims in places like Nigeria. Christian fundamentalism can seem very simplistic if you are not the kind of Christian that believes in the literal word of the Bible. I suspect that the question you raise has to do with whether people who identify themselves as Christian actually take their faith seriously. So many in the US who identify themselves as Christian don't really go to church that often, and don't really adhere strictly to the doctrines of Christianity. Jenkins is talking about the people who do take their religion seriously and act with religious motivations, like killing witches, or fighting for God. He predicts a Counter-Reformation. He does argue that Christianity is gaining more converts in African and Asia than Islam. While you are at the bookstore, take a look at the book, rather than the magazine, is my suggestion.

To: JohnM who wrote (45342)	9/19/2002 12:47:46 PM
From: Win Smith	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

I haven't read the article, which isn't online, but there is an interview with the author up, theatlantic.com An amusing bit for the capitalist contingent: You write that "it is Christianity"—not Islam—"that will leave the deepest mark on the twenty-first century." Why do you think this will be the case? Primarily I mean that in terms of the numbers. As I try and say in the article, and I certainly said this strongly in the book, the numbers are not fixed. It is possible that there will be wars and persecutions and that things will change so that Islam might in fact surpass Christianity. But as far as we can see from the numbers right now, Christianity is going to continue to be the world's most numerous religion, at least until the end of the twenty-first century. Christianity is growing most quickly in the areas that are probably going to be the great centers of population, if not centers of power, in the new century. So if we're looking for the religion that is going to affect the largest number of lives in the twenty-first century, it is almost certainly going to be Christianity, which gets me to another issue: why people in the West can't see that. Yes, people in the West seem almost blissfully unaware of the roiling growth of Christianity in the global South. How have most people here managed not to pay attention? There's a cynical remark that is none the worse for maybe being true, which is that people in Europe and North America really aren't very interested in the poorest of the poor. If you are a poor person in Ethiopia or Uganda or Peru, you don't show up on the radar screen. And we're dealing here with countries that aren't even in the Third World economically—we're dealing with the very very poor. Islam has registered in the last twenty or thirty years only because we see it as politically threatening. Maybe some Christians somewhere would have to take hostages before anyone would really notice they're there. There's also a lot of talk about whether the next pope is going to be liberal or conservative. A funny thing to debate if you know anything about how popes are chosen, and exactly how many members of the College of Cardinals are JP2 appointees. Diversity or balance on that axis ain't JP2's thing. The confluence of the AIDS epidemic in Africa and increased Catholic influence there, with attendant policies on sexual and birth control matters, is not something I like to think about. But I don't like thinking about Africa to begin with, it's way too sad.

To: JohnM who wrote (45342)	9/21/2002 6:37:59 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If the most important part of this thesis is the numbers part, then the failure to offer some sources for that in the Atlantic piece is a mistake. I read the piece at Borders Thursday night, and glanced though the book. There are no stats in either. I guess this Theology PHD does not feel he needs to back up his story with numbers. "Hey, if you don't believe me, call Jesus!" The article was of some interest, the book was too dull for me. He says that over 1000 women were killed for being "Witches" in the Congo last year. And that in South Africa, Witchcraft is a major factor in the black community. From what I have read over the years about Caribbean Witchcraft, (Harry Belafonte's "Zombie Jamboree" was a favorite of mine,) I see no reason to quibble with him. The point he was making was that the Pentecostal's have an easy time converting these folk, they believe in the same kind of "Demonology." The "Call and Response" type of Church service also fits well with the potential converts. My favorite Movie Actor, Robert Duvall did a Movie that he financed on his own a couple of years ago, called, "The Apostle." It featured him as a charismatic Preacher in the South, and showed a lot of this type of service. Terrific Movie, IMO. He opens the Movie with a scene in a small black church in the south, and he is a child with his nanny, listening to the service. I attended that type of church one Sunday, with my Mother's maid, in Woodville, Texas, in 1943, age 8. It was a real shock to see it portrayed the way I remember it so well.