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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (45693)	9/20/2002 3:47:23 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Are the Americans the new Romans? We certainly don't act like Romans, though we have garrisons all over the world and our multinationals may properly be seen as imperial adjuncts. The Romans were brutal whenever any of their representatives were harmed by the locals. If a pro-consul or some other Roman official was killed by the locals, the town in question would be burned, the locals' fields would be salted, the wells poisoned, the men killed, the women raped, and the children sold into slavery. As a result, Roman officials were quite safe. Whenever our embassies are bombed and our citizens killed, we sit back and take it or disturb the rubble using a few cruise missiles. When our soldiers are killed by mobs, like they were in Mogadishu, we retreat. Romans would have had no compunction about flattening Mogadishu and its citizens. It would have disappeared from the map. Osama bin Laden would have been a minor pest to the Romans. Saddam would be lucky to be alive. The Romans would be aghast if they saw us. They would not understand our reluctance to use our awesome military power to impose peace and to brutally avenge deaths of our citizens. Ahhh, the good old days.

To: Ilaine who wrote (45693)	9/20/2002 4:01:51 PM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 281500

Is the US at the end of its imperial journey, or on the brink of its most ambitious voyage? The old "TWT" think piece. A fair one, for the Guardian. The Brits want so desperately to play "Athens" to our "Rome." The point they forget in these type of stories is how much the strength of our Money adds to our power. We are getting away with money expansion that would normally hurt us due to the overseas demand for the Dollar. Lest we forget, Bush came in not wanting to do this type of thing, and was dragged into it by 9/11. I get a kick out of the left on this board who are so afraid of Bush getting us into a lot of overseas adventures. My biggest fear from this type of behavior is that the next Democratic administration will want to "Save the World" in a war where we really have no major interest. An African or Asian Adventure, in the best "Wilsonian" tradition. Maybe I will get lucky and it will not happen in my lifetime. lindybill@thirtyyearsofnodems.com

To: Ilaine who wrote (45693)	9/20/2002 4:13:58 PM
From: Rascal	Respond to of 281500

Rome's main success was a good Marketing Strategy. When they conquered a group they gave them citizen rights, hence the Togas and road building. It was a good deal. They failed when they just started killing and conquering and denied citizenry and benefits to the vanquished. The Visgoths and Goths were too far away and the "demographic" had changed. (Hawk is on to something!). There were not enough real Romans with Roman values to go around. The soldiers remained in the new lands and MARRIED the local ladies.(Lots of smart people on this thread) Hence it was hard to manage the Communications strategy and the Romans lost their power. Maybe Rove and Card are smart enough to avoid this mistake with their new "Global Communication Department." Rascal@Whenyou'reahammereverythinglookslikeanail.com

To: Ilaine who wrote (45693)	9/20/2002 4:22:52 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi CobaltBlue; Interesting article. Of course I could have written these two paragraphs: So Rome's greatest conquests came not at the end of a spear, but through its power to seduce conquered peoples. As Tacitus observed in Britain, the natives seemed to like togas, baths and central heating - never realising that these were the symbols of their "enslavement". Today the US offers the people of the world a similarly coherent cultural package, a cluster of goodies that remain reassuringly uniform. It's not togas or gladiatorial games today, but Starbucks, Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Disney, all paid for in the contemporary equivalent of Roman coinage, the global hard currency of the 21st century: the dollar. But I would be more inclined to compare the US to Athens. At its peak, Athens was a democracy that got involved in too many stupid wars, and ended up alienating its allies. -- Carl