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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: LindyBill who wrote (47042)9/26/2002 1:45:18 AM
From: kumar  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Bill, no I'm not Muslim. I'm whats called "agnostic". I was born in a Hindu family.

Does that change anything ? not for me.

PS: <edit> : My girlfriend is Roman Catholic.
One of my sister's is married to a gentleman from a different sect of hinduism.
another of my sisters is married to a Protestant gentleman.
my cousin is married to a muslim lady.

(all we need is a jewish person in the family :-)

now u may get an idea why I'm agnostic.



To: LindyBill who wrote (47042)9/26/2002 2:35:13 AM
From: maceng2  Respond to of 281500
 
This is like a virus that has infected the host, and it is spread thoughout Islam.

I agree, but unpopular and powerful USA foreign policy can push people into the arms of Islamic fundamentalists. Iran is still trying to get it's country back after the (very unpopular) Shah was deposed.

eurasianet.org

IRAN’S PRESIDENT FIGHTS RIGHT WING WITH NEW LAWS
9/24/02

In a dramatic move drawing attention throughout Central Asia, Iranian President Mohammad Khatami submitted two bills to Parliament on September 24 that could curb the political power of Iran’s clerics. The first bill will expand the President’s constitutional powers at the expense of the clerics’ veto power. The second would make elections more direct.

The embattled Khatami pledged in an August 30 press conference that he would take a new approach to his feud with clerics and their right-wing sympathizers in Parliament. "I am announcing today that the President must be able to perform his duties within the framework of the constitution," he said at the time. Maneuvers by the Parliament have stalled Khatami’s efforts to broaden Iranian democracy, reformists say. The president himself said he had made his decision to introduce the two bills after his warnings had been repeatedly ignored by the conservatives.

In his press conference, Khatami singled out the hard-line Guardian Council, a 12-member watchdog group appointed by the country’s Supreme Leader or Ayatollah, for a showdown over the two bills. "The Guardian Council should not reject the bills because they are logical and none of them are against the Constitution or the Islamic law," he said, "unless it intends to violate the Constitution." He said he had repeatedly warned them of the violations, but "unfortunately I have had no success," he added. "My warnings have been ignored, and the president’s duties, which are clearly stated in the Constitution, have been suspended."

Observers say this is the first time in Khatami’s two-term presidency that he has so explicitly and forcefully confronted his opponents. According to parliamentarian Elahe Koolai, who supports the bills, Khatami is basing his strategy on article 113 of the constitution. The article, which states "it is the President’s duty to ensure the implementation of the constitution and the prevention of its violation," may leave a reformist president with few other tools. According to Koolai, since no mention is made of how a president can stop the putative violations, obstructionists have been able to thwart the democratic process. Guardian Council spokespeople have openly said that no reformist candidate will be able to enter the next parliamentary elections in 2004. The Guardian Council has also effectively vetoed a broad category of laws that would have sharpened secular power.

Many legal and constitutional experts agree that one of the Iranian constitution’s primary tensions comes from its dual power structure, which invests political power in both the democratically elected president and the cleric-appointed Guardian Council. The constitution says it bases itself on the need to submit to God’s commands, which would seem to imply that holy men enjoy extensive authority. If the secular president’s bid to expand his powers succeeds, or if the Guardian Council blocks it, the political stalemate between reformists and traditionalists figures to change dramatically. If the first bill passes, the president would be able to fire the head of Parliament or of the judiciary. If it fails, judging from earlier remarks he has made, Khatami might seek other alternatives, up to and including resigning his post. Leaders of the reformist-dominated Parliament mentioned referendum and mass resignation as other options under consideration.

Though Vice President Mohammadali Abtahi strongly defended the bills shortly after presenting them to parliament, some conservative outlets had condemned them before September 24. The rightist Kayhan News called the president’s "new approach" a "dangerous precedent for the country. Surprisingly, some writers invoked the idea of American influence, even suggesting that the United States’ Central Intelligence Agency had a hand in drafting the bills. American President George W. Bush branded Iran part of an "axis of evil" in January, and his government has declined to speak supportively for Khatami in his battle with the rightists.

Most reform parties have come out in support of the bills, with the Islamic Iran Participation Front showing particular enthusiasm. The president’s younger brother, Mohammed Reza Khatami, leads the party, which dominates the reformist wing. Members of the reformist party, after imprisonment of their colleagues and seizure of their publications, had promised a showdown with conservatives in coming months. Speaking to news organizations on September 24, the younger Khatami again warned that the reformists might "leave the Establishment" if hard-liners block the presidents’ proposed bills. The Islamic Iran Participation Front has failed to fulfill its promises in the face of the unified conservative bloc, severely straining the reformists’ popularity. They are hoping that the president’s new combative mood will bring new vitality to their cause.

Though the bills will probably clear Parliament, it is hard to predict where they will go. Some pragmatic members of the right have not spoken out against the bills, perhaps biding time until Khatami’s term ends or the population grows disgusted with legislative wrangling. Months may go by before the Guardian Council deliberates, rejects and returns the bills to Parliament for revision. The Expediency Council and the Supreme Leader, both tied to the Right, have every constitutional right to weigh in and prolong the process. Many conservative leaders are now favoring this path, believing it will defeat Khatami’s effort at little political cost to themselves.

In that scenario, Khatami would have to ramp up his confrontation with conservatives, and observers do not know if his political will is large enough for that challenge. Events beyond Iran may also affect the public appetite for reform. If the United States or United Nations begin attacks on Iraq or if tensions escalate between Tehran and Washington, the conservatives may seize whatever political advantage Khatami’s boldness has given to the reform movement.



To: LindyBill who wrote (47042)9/26/2002 11:43:08 AM
From: JohnM  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
But its not mainstream Islam!

I assume you are a Muslim. I can understand your pain with this. But, whatever the numbers, the "Tail is wagging the Dog." This is like a virus that has infected the host, and it is spread thoughout Islam.


Lindy,

These assertions are so invasive that they need documentation, argumentation. You make them as if you know what you are talking about but you, like me, are in first grade when it comes to understanding what is Islam, let alone it's relation to Islamists.

Perhaps you actually mean them more tentatively than your fingers type them.