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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (47280)	9/26/2002 5:35:16 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

LindyBill walk to the gas station Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I am too old to walk! Besides, my moped never runs out. You might as well face the fact that one of the side effects of our fighting the war on terrorism is that we are going to end up running the ME. We are being forced into it because it is such a mess. I don't like it, but the alternative is to leave these Muslim Fundamentalists in a position to constantly come back and attack us. We were involved, along with the Israelis on the left, in having Israel pussyfoot with these people for 25 years, and they paid a terrible price. We can see what happened, and we are not going to set back and pay the same price. The choice we are faced with is, keep killing Alligators, or go ahead and drain the swamp. The Alligators learned to bite too well on 9/11. We are going to drain the swamp.

To: Bilow who wrote (47280)	9/26/2002 7:34:36 PM
From: frankw1900	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

This mirrors our problems in the Middle East where it is Israel's shitty treatment of the locals that has caused our problems. Last I looked, everyone in the middle east treats everyone shittily. Don't think you can single out the Israelis. Now it's all down to who can shout loudest, "Aron/Abdul started it first!" as justification for the latest outrage. First is now lost in the past and is irrelevant (assuming it ever was relevant). No, it's general shitty behaviour by everyone there that's causing the problems for the US. The US could withdraw from the world today, as you advocate,and some mad bastard from there would still try to drive a nuke up the Hudson. This is the traditional, and very successful, US foreign policy for most of 200 years. The first half is now "most," is it? Whatever US foreign policy in the last two hundred years has mostly been successful for the US. The country has gone from strength to strength. Pull US troops and weapons back and see how well the US can assert its interests for trade and commerce. Be clear. Freedom of the seas is guaranteed by the US for everyone because the US needs freedom of the seas. Similarly, freedom of trade is guaranteed for many by the US because the US needs freedom of trade. For the past two hundred years the US has been the symbol of freedom for the world and it's been such because it's always had foreign entanglements.It's a conceit to think otherwise. For a long while the entanglement was intellectual as the American revolution lighted up revolutions throughout the world but once the US became a world power the entanglement became intellectual and physical. And it will remain so even if the US decides it no longer wishes to be a world power and lets China or the UN or the EU guarantee its freedom of movement and freedom of trade. Of course, then the entanglement will be in form of foreign bureaucrats bent on standardizing everything from US apples to US education. Hey. when you're the superpower you can't always cherry pick your commitments or your entanglements. Especially if you're the superpower that stands for freedom and democracy.