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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: JohnM who wrote (47910)9/30/2002 4:48:18 AM
From: D. Long  Respond to of 281500
 
No one is arguing we are in a court of law.

You sure act like you think it is, John. Sorry to tell you, but the standards of proof you keep demanding for positions you don't agree with are just silly when it comes to international relations, and I for one consider it a very poor sport debating tactic used to dismiss the opposition. So there.

You moved a discussion of rights of self defense to a generic case, away from international relations. Now you wish to move it back. Okay.

I did?

All countries have enemies -- should they all smash them or is this strictly a policy for exclusive use by the US?

Self defense is an inherent right.

Derek


Looks pretty tied to international relations there. Specifically, that the United States has an inherent right of self defense in "smashing" its enemies where they threaten our interests, BEFORE and IN SPITE OF a LACK OF an attack on the continental United States. Pretty plain, John.

1. A doctrine of preemption offers other nations a language and very powerful precedent to do the same. Pakistan or India in Kashmir is the most obvious example but there are many others that could be advanced.

A doctrine of preemption only works if there is a threat to preempt, ie if it is shown that militants have staged across the Pakistani LOC. Just as the United States should have "preemptively" pursued al Qaeda from one side of the planet to the other as soon as it became clear they were a threat. We don't have to wait for them to kill 200 some innocents in blowing up our African embassies, or 3000 Americans in high rises before we ACT on their intentions to kill us, our friends, or our interests.

2. Such a doctrine without a reasonably careful stipulation of the conditions under which it could be applied makes the precedent even worse. It then does become an argument that the US can do it whenever it decides to do so. And, in the very bald form put forth in the Bush papers, can do so without some sort of multilateral agreement. Forget the UN, since it seems to be such a bogey in your mind. Just to advocate the government of any country can do it whenever it so decides without some sort of shared agreement, leaves the international scene without any checks and balances.

Power politics balances all. The United States is the most powerful nation on Earth, and CAN throw its weight around if it wished, at will. And even though we now have an Administration which is the most seemingly apt to do so since Andrew Jackson, they DON'T, because not even the United States is immune to the necessary consideration of consequences. India will not pre-empt Pakistan, even with good reason, unless the pain of not doing so is greater than the backlash it will be on the recieving end of if it does. The UN only institutionalizes the mechanisms of reward and punishment.

Derek