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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (48392)	10/1/2002 2:55:41 AM
From: frankw1900	Respond to of 281500

Did Britain use helicopter gunships with rockets in order to kill suspected IRA bombers along with dozens of innocent apartment dwellers? Did Britain consider making it illegal for Catholics to own land in certain places in Northern Ireland? Did Britain have a law preventing Catholics from moving back to Northern Ireland? Did Britain institute curfews with such regularity that people were unable to work? Was Britain a nation of 6 million surrounded by 100 million Catholics? Nope. But it's still a good parallel. The mothers marches did not happen because the British alleviated "the complaints of the IRA" unless you're referring to Brit pressure on the Prod carbon copy. The palestinians are surrounded by modernity, they want it and can't get at it, and they can't get at it because of the wretched people supposedly representing them: Arafat and the other regimes in the area. Israel is a nation of only 6 million but in terms of modernity is at least a billion. The palestinians are a huge potential threat not for Israel but for all the other regimes in the area: the pals want real jobs, real educations, real passports, real freedom. Hence the desperate moves to keep the conflict burning: the attempt by the islamists to highjack their civil society; the foolish move by the Arafat and near Arafat bunch to get in bed with them. Palestinian accord with Israelis would do as much, if not more, to destroy the archaic dream regimes in Saudi, and Egypt, as a democratic Iraq. Now is no time for modernity to abandon the area. It's time for the full court press. The regimes living in the archaic dream are desperate not to wake up and will do desperate things to remain in the dream time of 780 or 1940. The modern world has tendency to complacency and often doesn't look at threatening remnants critically enough. (20th century history demonstrates this can have horrible results.) The modern world tends to reasonable. The remnants living out of time are not. Trying to live in 780 or 1940 in the year 2002 is not reasonable and leads to cognitive dissonance on a large scale.* I think I was wrong about Sharon. I think he does get it. Dubya only half gets it. ....... *Cognitive dissonance can be seen also in large modern populations that don't look critically at the invasive archaic remnants amongst them. It's time to read those Iranian scholars again.

To: Bilow who wrote (48392)	10/1/2002 11:07:44 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Did Britain use helicopter gunships with rockets in order to kill suspected IRA bombers along with dozens of innocent apartment dwellers? No.. but they firebombed entire cities full of civilian populations in order to subvert morale for the evil regime they support.. A regime which was responsible for waging war (some might call it Jihad) against them. Furthermore, Britain and the US carpetbombed French cities where it was believe German troops were seeking shelter. Did Britain consider making it illegal for Catholics to own land in certain places in Northern Ireland? You mean like Jordan did when they owned the West Bank.. Making it a capital offense to sell land to a Jew? I also believe a similar law exists in the Palestinian Authority, which btw, is STILL a separate governmental entity. And as a governmental entity, they are responsible for the actions which transpire within their defined borders. Did Britain have a law preventing Catholics from moving back to Northern Ireland? I'm not sure, but in the past the British permitted the Potato Famines to occur without stepping forward to provide relief (some cited Malthus) geocities.com Did Britain institute curfews with such regularity that people were unable to work? Interesting point.. Remind yourself that the Israelis need that labor resource just as much as the Palestinians require the jobs. With labor in short supply, wage inflation results, and costs soar (eventually negating those higher wages). Also remind yourself that the roads and infrastructure in the West Bank were primarily built by Israelis, paid for by Israeli taxpayers. The PA has not offered, nor paid, any compensation for the decades of infrastructure maintenance and improvement that Israel effected in area. And that's kind of why, I opine, the Israelis don't mind destroying it from time to time... After all, they built it, it's their's to destroy. It's certain that Jordan didn't invest nearly as much in the region during the time they controlled it. Was Britain a nation of 6 million surrounded by 100 million Catholics? [Hint: "Southern" Ireland's population is less than 4 million, but Great Britain's is around 60 million.] No.. But Israel is 5 million people surrounded well over 100 million Arabs and assorted muslims, all taking DIRECT steps to destroy their nation and drive them into the sea. And this has been going on for well over 50 years. The Palestinians are nothing more than pawns in the "great game" of middle eastern politics. The fact that Iran is able to direct the timing and intensity of Palestinian attacks against Israel is indicative of just how little control the Palestinian people have over the course of their own future... They are nothing more than "expendable assets" for the purpose of destroying the Jews. So how is that for a contrast/comparison?? Hawk