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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (60558)	10/1/2002 5:11:22 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

But individual families differ tremendously in value judgments and "rules" and in their notion of how they will conform to societies "rules" as they are perceived by the family. I mean HUGE enormous differences. And then in each family people are really different. I don't see this sameness, or cohesive framework you are seeing. The moral universe even in a family is chaotic. When it gets to society, it is amazing it even works (imo).

To: Neocon who wrote (60558)	10/1/2002 6:00:50 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Okay. If I understand you, then, Society creates morality. Without society, there is no morality. This leads to at least two conclusions. One: society creates whatever moralities there are in religion. God, if he/she/it exists, has no morality, but all religious "morality" is just a societal construct. Two: different societies can have different moralities, and none is "better" than the other, because there is no external standard to judge them by. They are just different. Thus, to continue with my example, female genital mutilation is not wrong in any absolute sense, it is right by some societal standards of morality and wrong by others, but not right or wrong in any broader sense than that.

To: Neocon who wrote (60558)	10/1/2002 6:01:24 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

You apparently didn't catch the beginning of this discussion. Actually, I think I started it, but that's okay.

To: Neocon who wrote (60558)	10/7/2002 2:28:51 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"You no more create morality, as an individual, than you do a language" C'mon. People don't "create" language. It evolves culturally and is adopted, integrated, altered and modified by groups and individuals. Language is multifaceted and varied between and within groups. Although particular groups (such as Quakers) may share a commonality of expression...individuals within any group are wholly autonomous in how they use that language--if indeed they choose to speak that language at all. Nobody denies that people are influenced by reality. It is just that people are more than mindless social insects (referring you back to the man who tried to blow up Herr Hitler)--or, at least...they may be.