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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (60754)	10/2/2002 5:05:46 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Well, good for Karen. She got us to a definite conclusion: The failure to carry out a duty always and necessarily creates blame. Where there is no blame attached to the doing of something or failure to do it, there was not duty to do or refrain from doing it. That's helpful, to me at least, in understanding your view.

To: Neocon who wrote (60754)	10/2/2002 5:24:00 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

I understand the difference between "duty" and "beyond duty." I imagine everyone does. There's no need to repeat that. What I'm still working on is the basis of the duty to apologize. I can understand, though, the obligation to give the waiter a tip. I would explain it as a part of the implied service contract between the restaurant and the patron. I don't much like the word, duty, in that context, though. I would reserve "duty" for a different class of obligations, like professional and family duties, Mom, God, and country sorts of things, rather than mere social obligations. So you do not think it is disgraceful to be a cheapskate and stiff a waiter? Duty is no more than what one should do to avoid blame....... So if we create a list of things for which one might reasonably be blamed, we can look behind each one and find a duty? Forgetting your wife's birthday. Getting her a present, but in the wrong size. Dropping and breaking a plate while doing dishes. Planting a tree that died because it was unsuitable for the climate. Not voting. Leading someone on. Not getting up to give your seat on the bus to a little old lady. I'm struggling to find the duty. Perhaps remembering your wife's birthday.

To: Neocon who wrote (60754)	10/4/2002 2:50:46 PM
From: E	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

If you look at a few of the dictionary definitions of the word 'duty,' you can see how the choice of definition influences what acts one feels it appropriate refer to as "duties." Of course the choice of which definition to apply makes a statement about the person who makes the choice, imo. For example, one kind of person will declare that he/she has no duty to perform acts not "required by law" but only "required by custom." That "a thing due" doesn't refer to little things, but only to big ones. That "that which is owing to someone" means 'owing' in some stringent technical sense, not merely by standards of courtesy or kindness. an expression of respect that which is owing to anyone; a debt a thing due a payment due and enforced by law or custom action due in the way of moral or legal obligation that which one ought to do the action which one's position or station directly requires etc etc Neocon, if one were looking among the discussants here for someone on whom one could rely to do simply what they ought to do, that is, to "do the right thing" and not squirm out of it on linguistic or philosophical technicalities, I sure think one would be wisest to choose you.