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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Capitalist who wrote (49283)10/4/2002 4:15:36 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
<<...If Israel TRULY wanted peace, why in 35 years of occupation to this day, have they never ONCE halted settlement building...full-well knowing that settlements are a major obstacle to peace?...>>

Good question...I once read that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity...=)



To: Capitalist who wrote (49283)10/4/2002 5:26:38 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
<<...The Bush team would also buy itself more support abroad if it made a more energetic effort to defuse the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Mr. Bush has been great about telling the truth to Palestinians that they need a new leader, but he has been awful about telling the truth to Ariel Sharon that he needs to end settlements, and the whole world sees the hypocrisy...>>

Tone It Down a Notch
By Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times | Opinion
Wednesday, 2 October, 2002

It's hard to believe that just a year ago, in the wake of 9/11, the French newspaper Le Monde carried the headline "We are all Americans now." What a difference a year makes. Today, I figured, that headline would probably read: "We are all anti-Americans now." So I called Alain Frachon, the senior editor of Le Monde, and asked him how his paper was viewing America today. I was close. He said: "The same columnist who wrote that piece a year ago on 9/11 wrote another one this year on the first anniversary. This year, though, his headline was: 'We are all still Americans -- but not every day now.' "

What happened? Where did all that empathy go? Obviously, much of that initial burst of pro-Americanism was the world's gut reaction to the horror of 9/11, and when America soon started exercising its power to retaliate some of it was naturally going to dissipate. At the same time, because America today is so much more powerful, economically and militarily, than anyone else, it is always going to engender a certain amount of envy and animosity.

But while some will always dislike us for who we are, many now oppose us for what we do or say. And to the extent that we can neutralize some of that before we take on Iraq, we would be doing ourselves a world of good. What to do?

President Bush had the right impulse on this issue during the campaign, when he said America needed to be "humble -- proud and confident of our values, but humble." Unfortunately, his team has lost some of that humility. I loved Don Rumsfeld's briefings during the Afghan war. They were no-nonsense tough, with a dose of American nationalism that resonated with me. But lately I feel, coming from the Pentagon, a certain degree of imperial contempt for the rest of the world, especially the Arab-Muslim world. It's not healthy. I applaud Mr. Rumsfeld's slamming of Yasir Arafat, but when he refers to the "so-called occupied territories" he tells the entire Muslim world that America is utterly indifferent to Israeli settlements and how they have contributed to the current impasse.

I have long felt that 9/11 was perpetrated and applauded by people who feel envy toward America, or humiliated by its success and their failure at modernity. That doesn't mean we should coddle them. It means we should criticize them -- loudly -- and the regimes that produce them. But there are two kinds of critics in life: those who criticize you because they want you to fail and those who criticize you because they want you to succeed. And people can smell the difference a mile away. If you convey to people that you really want them to succeed, they will take any criticism you dish out. If you convey that you really hold them in contempt, you can tell them that the sun is shining and they won't listen to you.

There is too much criticism-with-contempt oozing from the Pentagon, which, unfortunately, has become the voice of America lately. It feels as if we don't have a rounded foreign policy anymore -- only a defense policy. I would like to hear more of Secretary of State Colin Powell's voice -- a voice that says America is not just about disarming rogues, although we will if we have to, but also about inviting others into our future. And it is too bad that Mr. Bush's instinctive humility has given way lately to Texas cowboy lingo when talking about Iraq. I'm sure it helps whip up crowds at Republican fund-raisers, but, as Mr. Frachon put it, "it doesn't cross the ocean well."

Beyond tone, there is also substance. We will never be taken seriously by the world if we go on telling others that they are either with us or against us in the war on terrorism -- but that in the war for a greener planet, in the war against global warming, sorry, we're not with you, we're taking a powder, because we don't want to give up our energy gluttony. President Bush promised that he would offer a credible alternative to the Kyoto treaty. Where is it?

The Bush team would also buy itself more support abroad if it made a more energetic effort to defuse the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Mr. Bush has been great about telling the truth to Palestinians that they need a new leader, but he has been awful about telling the truth to Ariel Sharon that he needs to end settlements, and the whole world sees the hypocrisy.

Good will and popularity are underrated strategic assets. With a few small adjustments in tone or policy, we could buy so much more of both today. And if we launch a war to remake Iraq, we're going to want all the global good will we can get.

truthout.org



To: Capitalist who wrote (49283)10/4/2002 7:19:13 PM
From: Nadine Carroll  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Actually, the Palestinians DID try non-violence (relatively speaking) in the First Intifadah between 1987-1988.

Well, we seem to be working on different definitions of 'non-violent' here. To me, 500 youths converging on checkpoint hurling stones is not non-violent. I have a simple definition of non-violence: if the soldiers being attacks do not respond violently, will they come out of the encounter alive and uninjured? In the first intifada, the answer to that was 'no'. It was brilliant politically, as it morphed the image of the conflict from 4 million Jews against 250 million Arabs into a Palestinian kid with a rock against an Israeli tank. But it was not non-violent, let's not kid ourselves on that score. Real non-violent protests win their victories by making their opponents use violence just in order to not give way and allow the protest, not to protect their own lives. This wasn't at all the method of the first intifada.

If Israel TRULY wanted peace, why in 35 years of occupation to this day, have they never ONCE halted settlement building...full-well knowing that settlements are a major obstacle to peace?

I will turn the question back at you...WHY are settlements "a major obstacle to peace"? This is one of those lines that are repeated ad nauseum until everybody takes them as gospel. But let's think about it. What are settlements? Jewish towns built either right near the Green Line (those are the largest), or in the Jordan valley (for security), or between Arab towns in the West Bank and Gaza. First question for you: Why is it okay for Israel to have a million Arab citizens but impossible for Palestine to accept ANY Jewish citizens? In other words, why is it axiomatic that Jewish towns will never be allowed in Palestine? Second question for you: Settlements were not such an obstacle to peace as to prevent Barak from offering to dismantle 80% of them. If settlements are the real issue, why was this offer not even good enough to draw a counter offer?

You see, I don't happen to think settlement are the main issue at all. Sure, they are AN issue, and one that goes over well in liberal circles in Europe and America, but they are not at all the main issue. To me, Barak's offer at Taba, the one that offered to dismantled 80% of the settlements, proved that pretty clearly. The real issue is a Palestinian leadership that can accept a deal that a) gives the refugees right of return to Palestine, not Israel, and b) leaves Israel standing, yet says 'end of conflict'. Those are the real issues, the issues that the last talks fell apart over. Land, borders, even Jerusalem, were minor compared to these central issues.