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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Noel de Leon who wrote (49818)	10/6/2002 5:46:58 PM
From: pogbull	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Craft 'rammed' Yemen oil tanker news.bbc.co.uk Excerpt: The owners of a French oil tanker on fire off the coast of Yemen say they believe it was rammed by a smaller boat, before exploding into flames. A junior officer on board the Limburg reported seeing a small craft "fast approaching" the tanker in the port of Ash Shihr, at Mukallah, 570 kilometres (353 miles) east of Aden, and believes the two vessels touched before an explosion occurred. Yemeni officials say they do not consider the blast an act of sabotage. But Captain Peter Raes, managing director of France Ship, told BBC News Online it would be "near impossible" for an accidental explosion to have taken place, and that explosives were likely to have been on board the vessel which crashed.

To: Noel de Leon who wrote (49818)	10/6/2002 6:25:57 PM
From: spiral3	Respond to of 281500

Looking for patterns is perhaps justified if one looks at patterns from both sides. I can see the pattern you’re talking about, it freaks me out, especially your point #3 which builds on your point #1. imho, you need to follow your own advice.

To: Noel de Leon who wrote (49818)	10/6/2002 7:21:18 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Your facts are not very factual. One interesting pattern is that every Israeli government since 1967 has expanded the occupied territories. No. Did Israel conquer any more land since 1967? no. Did Israel give back the Sinai in 1979? yes. So what are you talking about? A second pattern: besides expelling the bulk of the Arab inhabitants of Palestine... I presume you're talking about 1948. Most of the refugees were not expelled. They mostly fled in panic during the war, when the confidently-predicted Arab victory failed to materialize. They were leaderless, you see, as most of the middle class had left Palestine before the end of the Mandate; they just packed their bags and headed for Cairo or Damascus. Palestinian society was not organized and it disintegrated. 60,000 Arabs left from Haifa alone, that's 10% of the refugees right there. Ben Gurion and Golda Meyer begged them not to go, but they said they had to go but would come back in two weeks [after the Arab victory]. The British police lent them trucks. It was very orderly. Some Arabs were expelled during the war, particularly around Ramla, some were subject to whispering campaigns, while some were left alone. Israel has also consistently harassed the United Nations observers and other personnel stationed along the Armistice Demarcation Lines Again not true. The UN has consistently demonstrated by its behavior that the peacekeepers are more afraid of the Arabs than the Israelis. They let Hizbullah set up rocket launchers right next to their outposts in Lebanon. third: Israel has additionally imposed a system of apartheid upon the Arabs, who stayed in their homeland Have you switched to 1967 now? Again not true. Israeli Arabs are citizens with equal rights under law. Military government of disputed lands is a very different animal from a Jewish/Arab apartheid system of law, which does not in fact exist -- you could hardly have a million Arab citizens of Israel if it did. Of course, it was really rotten of the Israelis to behave this way in light of the peaceful intentions of their neighbors, who only kept trying to destroy them in the interests of justice - heavy sarcasm -. The Arabs could have got everything but East Jerusalem back in 1967 for the asking -- but they refused to end the state of war: "no recognition, no negotiation, no peace" was their motto. Or don't you want to look at that "pattern" from both sides?