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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: lurqer who wrote (8025)10/10/2002 11:31:18 PM
From: abuelita  Respond to of 89467
 
naught

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you phuckinguy <g>

auntie



To: lurqer who wrote (8025)10/11/2002 12:47:50 AM
From: SOROS  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 89467
 
<font color=red>GOLDEN DOGGIE POO POO</font>

"JW, Fleck is right on
gold wont take off unless/until a few things happen:
(I know, I am preaching to a fellow believer)

- panic sets in
- bonds fail as a haven
- the dollar resumes its dive

I believe we have moved from complacency to deep concern
Fleck makes a great point about the public investment community simply not grasping the gravity of the economic situation
they still regard the stock market as the "aberration" that incorrectly reflects an "improving economy"
but they are illiterates, clinging to hope more than clear study
the stock market has always been the best forecaster of the economy, even more effectively than the Leading Econ Indicators, of which the S&P is but one of many contributors

boy oh boy, are they gonna be shocked at the rapid decay
RRussell said they will not be able to recognize the economy in 12 months
that is a great summary byline

today, I had a reply email from a very bright college roommate
he lives in Vermont, an old Grateful DeadHead
he works as a Burlington City small business town consultant
he is real wise to the ways of the world of business
but he has bought all the garbage put out by liberal & financial press nonsense
he has said to me in a long July conversation of 90 minutes...

- the stock market always comes back
- longterm buy & hold has always been very profitable
- the govt wont allow it to get out of control
- lower interest rates will have a big effect eventually
- our banking system is strong
- our brand of capitalism has a long proven record
- the US dollar is the strongest currency in the world
- there is no gold conspiracy by the Federal Reserve

last week I warned him that we are fast approaching a very very dangerous situation with our banking and financial interconnected system
I cited the deteriorating ill health of JPMorgan
he used to live and work in NYCity, and dismisses all such concern

today he replied with a simple message that the USGovt will not allow JPMorgan to fail, since it is too big
he is not aware of what derivatives are, or their complex role
he is not aware of the collective losses from their mass of failed loans, including Argentina

of course, I calmly cited a dozen points
highlighted by the LTCM parallel, only 15x larger
I cited the potential loss liabilities of JPM at perhaps $1 trillion
he is aware of LTCM, but not the details on its leverage

JW, it is a waste of time
I selected by good friend to continue warning because I love him and his wife, solid friends for 30 years
he has toiled at low pay for all these years
saved and saved in a 401k, watched it rise to $350k
now it is less than half that
in late July he boasted that I was wrong, the S&P rallied 14% from the July lows
but it was only slightly higher than when I first warned him in early July

I tried, but I continue to fail
they dont get it
in early August, I asked if he wanted more warnings
I dont just send a trite warning with no backing
I send a clip from RRussell, or a detail like how last week had a +200 Dow day, but the week lost 2%
he said to go ahead, knock myself out, he would benefit from my experience, BUT THAT I HAVE BEEN WRONG BEFORE, LIKE IN 2000

I dont warn anyone else, nobody, not one other friend
about 6-8 other friends have heard enough, they want no more
I expect some of them to phone me before Christmas, panicky
I should tell them to fook off, but I wont ever do that
I am too nice a guy, care too much, what a mensch I am?

those who lost big in 2000 are discredited in their eyes
I continue, but now with less enthusiasm or frequency
there is still passion in my dire pleadings
I describe the "peeling of the onion" from one level of risk-takers to the next, with conservatives being the last losers
no diff

a couple mocked me in the summer
I am tired of all that, no more, just one key friend
he is one of us four musketeers, one of whom has fallen victim to harsh alcoholism, losing track with us at our wishes
the other is a friend recently laid off in Ohio, tearing into his savings now, eager to buy gold shares but more intent on finding employment now

hey, RRussell expects Trez yields to bottom at 3% flat
golly gee, do you think gold will fook around for a couple more months while bond yields scrape down to 3% ???
I think it is possible
I just hope golds dont wither
the 200dayMA is providing support now for HUI
I dont mind more stalling, as long as I can accumulate further
I sold most of my mint-state silver coins and plan to put the money into more Novagold, or possibly Seabridge
maybe something else, but I doubt it

I get really loyal
Seabridge just announced pursuit of several Nevada properties for exploration purposes
Novagold had great exploration news last week on their big Nome Alaska property

I ramble, watching the StLouis Cardinals go down
they might pull it out
a brilliant suicide squeeze bunt by SFran Giants, niiiiiiccce
I want Barry Bonds to be denied further limelight from which to feed his oversized ego
he is NOT a team player, caring only about himself
he is the penultimate jagoff"

AND:

"big bullish Japanese "HAMMER" today on HUI index

finance.yahoo.com^HUI&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=1d&l=on&z=m&q=l

a HAMMER is characterized as an open followed by a strong downdraft, a recovery, then a close near the open, so that all the intraday price action lies below the open and close
(the Hi-Lo-Open-Close chart entry for the day resembles a hammer head with a handle)

a HAMMER often indicates unwillingness to allow a low-priced opportunity to just sit there, without taking advantage of it

YA MON
just a single day, and not a highly reliable pattern
since only one day
I was very surprised to see it though
shows some resilience
kind of like my stinky sox, good strength, if only one day

Novagold looked just fine today, up nicely until end

in the green on this tough day were: NRI.TO, KGC, GG, GFI, HL
tough day for silvers"



To: lurqer who wrote (8025)10/11/2002 6:55:34 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
Ex-U.S. President Carter wins Nobel Peace Prize

Fri Oct 11, 5:18 AM ET

OSLO (Reuters) - Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for working for peace and human rights around the world.

Carter won from a record field of 156 candidates vying for the prize named after Alfred Nobel, a Swedish philanthropist and inventor of dynamite. Carter, a Democrat, was president from 1977 to 1981.

He has won praise for tireless work as an ex-president in trying to bring peace to everywhere from Haiti to North Korea (news - web sites). He has been repeatedly nominated for the prize, worth $1.0 million.

He came close to winning in 1978 when Israeli Prime Minister Menachim Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat shared the Nobel Peace award for a peace deal brokered by Carter.



To: lurqer who wrote (8025)10/11/2002 9:08:47 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 89467
 
The deflation danger

Of debt, deflation and denial
From The Economist print edition
Oct 10th 2002
economist.com







The risk of falling prices is greater than at any time since the 1930s

FOR decades inflation was the bogeyman in rich countries. But now some economists reckon that deflation, or falling prices, may be a more serious threat—in America and Europe as well as Japan. That would be decidedly awkward, given the surge in borrowing by firms and households in recent years. Particularly worrying is the rise in borrowing by American households to finance purchases of houses, cars or luxury goods. Deflation would swell the real burden of these debts, forcing consumers to cut their spending.

Policymakers in America and Europe have been quick to dismiss any fears of possible deflation. Bond markets, on the other hand, reckon that the risk is mounting: bond yields have fallen to historical lows. Many products, from clothes to cars, are certainly cheaper than they were a year ago. But full-blown deflation requires a persistent fall in the overall price level. The recent fall in the prices of durable goods has been offset by rising prices of services; so outside Japan, average prices continue to rise, albeit at the slowest pace for decades. As measured by the GDP deflator, the best economy-wide gauge, America's inflation rate has fallen to 1.1%, its lowest for 40 years. Its consumer-price index has risen by 1.8% over the past 12 months, but prices have fallen in half of its 16 main product categories—the biggest proportion since the current series started.

The world is still awash with excess capacity, in industries from telecoms and cars to airlines and banking. Until this is eliminated, downward pressure on inflation will persist. A good measure is the output gap, the level of actual minus potential GDP. Historically there has been a close relationship in most countries between the size of the output gap and changes in the inflation rate (see chart). When the output gap is negative (ie, actual output is below potential), inflation usually declines. The OECD estimates that America's GDP is about 1% below its potential. If growth remains at or below its trend rate of around 3% over the next two years, the negative output gap will persist into 2004, pushing inflation even lower. It would not take much to tip into deflation.

Optimists argue that deflation is much less likely today than in the 1930s because services now account for a bigger slice of the economy. The prices of services tend to be more resistant to dropping than the prices of goods because they are more labour-intensive, and wages rarely fall. However, Stephen Roach, an economist at Morgan Stanley, observes that service-sector inflation is now much weaker than usual. The rate of increase in the services component of America's GDP deflator fell from 3% in the year to the fourth quarter of 2000 to 2.2% in the second quarter of this year. In the previous six recessions, service-sector inflation actually increased over the comparable period.

Although Mr Roach reckons that deflation is a serious risk, economists at Salomon Smith Barney argue that fears of it are vastly overdone. Incompetent monetary policies were largely to blame for deflation in America in the 1930s and in Japan today. Outside Japan, they argue, no central bank would tolerate a persistent decline in prices. A recent paper by economists at the Federal Reserve draws lessons from Japan's deflation and concludes that, when inflation is unusually low, central banks must be especially alert to the risk of deflation and cut rates by more than is normally justified by inflation and growth rates.

The Fed is at least aware of the risks. However, not all central banks may be either willing or able to learn from Japan's mistakes. Germany probably faces a higher risk of deflation than America. The ECB's interest rate of 3.25% is broadly appropriate for the euro area as a whole, given its inflation rate (2.2%), the size of the output gap, and the bank's chosen inflation target of “less than 2%”. But the ECB seems unlikely to cut interest rates until inflation dips below 2%. And its inflation target is arguably too low. Research by the IMF and the Fed suggests that, if central banks aim for inflation below 2%, the risk of deflation rises markedly. If the ECB had an inflation target with a mid-point (rather than a ceiling) of 2%, it could now trim interest rates.

Even then, however, rates would still be too high for Germany. Since it is the highest-cost producer within the euro area, a fixed exchange rate tends to cause price convergence by forcing inflation to be lower in Germany than in the rest of the euro area. Germany's core rate of inflation (excluding food and energy) has averaged 0.6 percentage points below the euro-area average over the past three years; it is now a full point lower, at 1.1%.

Since interest rates are the same across the whole of the euro area, this implies that real rates will be higher in Germany and growth consequently slower. Germany's output gap, at an estimated 2.5% of GDP, is the second biggest after Japan among the G7 countries, and it is likely to widen. Deutsche Bank recently cut its growth forecast for Germany to only 0.1% for this year and 0.6% in 2003.

Back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest that, if the old Bundesbank were setting interest rates to suit Germany alone, they would now be below 2%. Worse still, not only is Germany unable to cut interest rates, but the EU's stability and growth pact also obstructs any fiscal easing. Nor can it devalue its currency. Stripped of all its macroeconomic policy weapons, Germany now runs a serious risk of following Japan into deflation.

Friend or foe?
Deflation is not necessarily bad. If falling prices are caused by faster productivity growth, as happened in the late 19th century, then it can go hand in hand with robust growth. On the other hand, if deflation reflects a slump in demand and excess capacity, it can be dangerous, as it was in the 1930s, triggering a downward spiral of demand and prices.

Today, both the good and bad sorts of deflation are at work. Some prices are falling because of productivity gains, thanks to information technology. But the weakness of profits suggests that most deflation is now bad, not good. Deflation is particularly harmful when an economy is awash with debt. Total private-sector debt is now much higher than when deflation was last experienced in the 1930s. Falling prices not only increase the real burden of debt, they also make it impossible for a central bank to deliver negative real interest rates, because nominal rates cannot go below zero.

If deflation causes real debts to swell, debtors may have to cut spending and sell assets to meet their payments. This can unleash a vicious spiral of falling incomes, asset prices and rising real debt. Irving Fisher, an American economist, described this process in a famous article in 1933 entitled “The Debt-Deflation Theory of Great Depressions”. He described how attempts by individuals to reduce their debt burden by cutting costs could paradoxically cause their debt burden to swell. Unable to increase prices to boost profits, firms have to cut costs, either by reducing labour costs and hence household income or by buying less from other firms. This is sensible for an individual firm, but it reduces demand in the economy, thwarting the desired improvement in profit, leading to another round of cuts and putting further downward pressure on prices.

America's corporate sector is already suffering deflation, with the price deflator of non-financial businesses falling in the past year for the first time since the second world war. Many firms that borrowed heavily in the late 1990s, expecting rapid revenue growth to finance their debts, are now in trouble. Ed McKelvey, an economist at Goldman Sachs, worries that corporate-sector deflation could create wider deflation if firms try to slash labour costs.

When Japan was the only country with deflation, one sure cure might have been a big devaluation of the yen to push up inflation. But for the world as a whole, this is not an option. Global deflation could be even harder to budge.



To: lurqer who wrote (8025)10/11/2002 10:30:08 AM
From: SOROS  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 89467
 
This 2-day ramp looks like options garbage and short-covering precipitated by an oversold bounce. Another way to put it -- Everyone was so depressed that they had to buy. Somewhat like the "patriotic" buying. This is nothing more than responding to the CNBC rally/chant of "the bottom is in." I've heard at least 4 analysts from banks and brokerage firms crying this "bottom" call. Of course, I heard the same ones saying the same thing one month ago, two months ago, three months ago, six months ago, one year ago, 2 years ago, etc, etc. etc. I see no earnings to justify this bottom call. Car makers losing sales at ZERO percent interest. That should be telling stock buyers something about the future! Pain will resume in time, and each time it pushes a little closer to capitulation. I used to think there would be no capitulation, but I have been listening closely to others talk. Right before this rally was the FIRST time I heard a little nervousness in their voices. All I heard before was, "I'll never sell -- the market ALWAYS comes back." I detected the first signs of "scared" before this rally. One more reversal and drop to new lows just could crack this 20 year love affair with the stock market. I agree with Jim -- when CNBC is struggling to stay on the air, the bottom will be in.

I remain,

SOROS