SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Attack Iraq? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2444)10/12/2002 1:33:54 AM
From: Raymond Duray  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 8683
 
BUSH CONSIDERED MONSTER BY NORWEGIANS:

guardian.co.uk

Recognition for the president who never sent a US soldier into war

Bush handed Nobel rebuke as Carter wins the peace prize

Jonathan Steele
Saturday October 12, 2002
The Guardian

Jimmy Carter, the only US president since 1945 never to order American soldiers into combat, yesterday won the Nobel peace prize in what the award committee made clear was a deliberate slap at President George Bush.
"In a situation currently marked by threats of the use of power, Carter has stood by the principles that conflicts must as far as possible be resolved through mediation and international cooperation based on international law, respect for human rights and economic development," the committee said in its official citation.

The £600,000 prize is the most prestigious international award and has been won by Nelson Mandela, Mikhail Gorbachev, Willy Brandt and Burmese human rights campaigner, Aung San Suu Kyi.

The committee has often made politically sensitive choices that have angered governments. The award to the human rights campaigner Andrei Sakharov annoyed Soviet leaders in 1975, while the choice of the Dalai Lama in 1989, the year of Tiananmen Square, infuriated China.

Although Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesman, said Mr Bush had called Mr Carter to congratulate him, the award was widely interpreted as an attack on the current president's drive towards war on Iraq. "It should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken," the awards committee chairman Gunnar Berge said. "It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States."

Nelson Mandela praised Mr Carter for being one of the few US Democrats to criticise the Bush policy. "He deserves the Nobel peace prize. When President Bush has taken that belligerent attitude, Carter has condemned him."

Mr Carter, the 39th president, who served from 1977 to 1981, has spent the last 20 years working in conflict resolution, monitoring foreign elections and running medical and other aid programmes in Africa. With his wife Rosalynn, he founded the Carter Center in Atlanta, in 1982. The prize reflects admiration for his achievements in office and since.

"He symbolises all that is historically thought of as the best in America - America as peacemaker, healer, and champion of human rights, social justice, and democracy, an eradicator of disease and hunger worldwide," Dr Peter Bourne, the British-born doctor who worked on the Carter administration's drug policy, said yesterday.

Mr Carter always prided himself on his record of never sending a US serviceman to death in combat. It was no accident. He was propelled to power in 1976 by the national backlash against the US intervention in Vietnam.

Added to that was revulsion over earlier US efforts at "regime change" in which the CIA aimed to assassinate or mount coups against leaders in the developing world. Several of these plots, in Chile, Congo and Cuba were revealed just as Mr Carter was starting his bid for the presidency.

In office he was determined to stay true to the mood that put him in the White House. He made human rights a top priority, upsetting the traditionalists by insisting the state department draw up an annual country-by-country index of human rights performance. He cancelled weapons systems such as the neutron bomb and the B1 bomber.

He looked for dialogue in place of conflict, most notably in the Middle East where he should have won the Nobel prize along with Anwar Sadat, the Egyptian president, and Menachem Begin, the Israeli prime minister. The Nobel committee said yesterday his office sent in the nomination too late.

If there was a cancer in his presidency, it was Zbigniew Brzezinski, the man he appointed to be his national security adviser. Mr Brzezinski had befriended Mr Carter as a young governor and helped to put him on the council on foreign relations, giving him his first chance to sit with professionals. Mr Carter never felt able to dump him, even though his hawkish instincts were alien to his own. Rivalry between Mr Brzezinski and Cyrus Vance, the secretary of state, who eventually resigned, undermined Mr Carter's detente with the Soviet Union, aborted his peace efforts with Cuba, and led to foolish US moves in the Horn of Africa and Zaire.

Mr Brzezinski's influence also led to the disastrous decision to try to rescue the 52 US diplomats held hostage in the embassy in Tehran. Operation Eagle Claw was the only aggressive move in the Carter presi dency. Eight airmen died when a helicopter and a plane collided in the desert.

Mr Carter's aversion to the US military-industrial complex was furiously opposed by US elites. Men in power today, such as Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Paul Wolfowitz, worked hard to get the rightwinger Ronald Reagan elected in his place. They distorted Mr Carter's moves, pilloried him for "weakness" and sought - successfully - to have US opposition to new wars branded a disease (the "Vietnam syndrome") instead of a sensible reaction against imperial intervention.

Out of office, Mr Carter became America's most successful ex-president. One commentator quipped that he "used the presidency as a stepping-stone to what he really wanted to do in life". There was truth in it, as he embarked on 20 years of work in conflict resolution in Nicaragua, Haiti, North Korea, and Cuba, as well as funding programmes against disease in Africa. He became America's Nelson Mandela, except that he is still unrecognised by many of his countrymen. Yesterday's award may give him the belated recognition he deserves.

In a statement posted on the Carter Center's website, he said: "My concept of human rights has grown to include not only the rights to live in peace, but also to adequate healthcare, shelter, food, and to economic opportunity. I hope this award reflects a universal acceptance and even embrace of this broad-based concept."

He said yesterday: "When I left the White House I was fairly young and I realised I might have 25 more years of active life," he said. "So we capitalised on the influence that I had as a former president of the greatest nation in the world and decided to fill vacuums."

Choice made in secret and by Norwegians only

· Five men and women choose the peace laureate in secret. No minutes of their meetings are revealed and all decisions are presented as being unanimous, even if they are not.

· Committee members (who are always Norwegian) are appointed by Norway's parliament for six-year terms. Alfred Nobel was a Swede, but decided that Norwegians should decide who had "done the most or the best work for fraternity between the nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".

· The committee members who chose Jimmy Carter were Gunnar Berge, 62, a former MP and finance minister; Johan Gunnar Stalsett, 67, a bishop; Hanna Kristine Kvanmo, 78, a former MP and UN delegate; Sissel Marie Ronbeck, 52, ia former MP and minister; and Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, 61, a former MP and adviser to the far-right Progress party.

· To nominate someone for the prize you have to be an MP/minister, a member of an international law court, a university chancellor (or professor of social science, history, philosophy, law and theology), the head of a peace/foreign affairs thinktank, a former laureate, a member of a body which has won the prize in the past or a current or former Nobel committee member.

· This year Mr Carter beat off competition from 117 individuals and 39 groups, including the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, President George Bush, Tony Blair and the Irish musician Bono.



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2444)10/12/2002 3:15:14 AM
From: AK2004  Respond to of 8683
 
ray
if that is indeed a message from nobel committee then that automatically makes Jimmy Carter as 1st president traitor

jimmy was never a good president but I would not think that he would betray his own country - you live and you learn



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2444)10/12/2002 8:59:55 AM
From: lorne  Respond to of 8683
 
When you wish to LIE and mislead readers you should put in front of your stated lies " IMO " so readers know right away that you are attempting to mislead whoever reads the article. You said...." NOBEL COMMITTEE PUTS BUSH ON NOTICE AS WAR MONSTER:".....

This LIE is not in the article you posted.

In the article....." He added: "I hope it will help strengthen what Carter has to say. He has a more moderate point of view than the sitting administration."

Two other committee members, Inger-Marie Ytterhorn and Hanna Kristine, then challenged this interpretation.".....

Not even unanimous on the nobel committee. Gees, a bit different from your headliner LIE.



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2444)10/12/2002 9:35:35 AM
From: Victor Lazlo  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 8683
 
<<He added: "I hope it will help strengthen what Carter has to say. He has a more moderate point of view than the sitting administration." >>

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan on Carter's watch because they accurately percieved him as being weak and indecisive.

Europe gave us South African Apartheid, Napolean, King George III, Hitler, Moussalini, the Red Brigade, the IRA, the Protestant Orangemen, the brutal, imperialistic regimes of England, France and other horrors of political nightmares. And we're supposed to listen to their 'wise' counsel? LOL !



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2444)10/12/2002 11:46:28 AM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 8683
 
The voice of America

Only his people can stop Bush now - and many are speaking out against war in Iraq

Simon Tisdall
Saturday October 12, 2002
The Guardian

Who can stop Bush on Iraq? Not the UN security council, it seems, where US diplomatic kneecapping and punishment beatings proceed apace. Not an intimidated US Congress where, with honourable exceptions, the call to arms trumpets irresistibly over November's hustings. And not any number of international lawyers, vainly brandishing the UN charter and pre-emptively disregarded by high counsel to the White House hyperpower. In Whitehall, worried marchers scare pigeons but not the Pentagon. As the drum beats and the rhetoric rises, respected analysts opine that nothing now can prevent the war. Bush will have his way because, whatever bishops and imams vicariously preach, no power on earth can stop him.

This is not entirely true; in truth, not true at all. Americans can stop America's next war as they have stopped similar planned or actual idiocies in the past. That the Bush clique pays scant heed to Arab and Muslim concerns, has no time for "euro-wimps" and other appeasers is brutally clear. But domestic public opinion is a different story - and that story is changing. Slowly, inconsistently but palpably, ordinary Americans are making their voices heard. This is no anti-war movement to compare with Vietnam. Their motivations are often practical, even mundane. But a strange phenomenon is now apparent in which Karl Rove, Bush's top electoral strategist and poll-watcher, may yet emerge as a more potent force than the Cheney-Rumsfeld axis and all the other full-spectrum dominators combined.

Each time Bush ups the ante, makes another, ever more far-fetched, fearsome claim about the Baghdad bogeyman, domestic support wavers or slips. It certainly does not rise, as this week's Pew Center survey confirms. Far from uniting his nation, as he claims, Bush's demagoguery is discernibly exposing and deepening its divisions not just on Iraq but along the deep, still heaving faultlines of the 2000 election. More and more of the 76% of voters who did not support him then (he won 47% of the popular vote on a 51% turnout) find their judgment vindicated now. "The public is deeply split," says the Pew survey. Be sure that Rove is watching, with a weather eye to the 2004 election, even as the hawks fly high and blind.

Bush still enjoys considerable but softening overall support; his approval ratings are steadily declining. The latest month-on-month Gallup shows support for military action dropping towards 50% despite the vast weight of official propaganda reworking last year's still resonant trauma. If a unilateral war without allies or UN backing is postulated, as in this week's New York Times/CBS poll, a clear majority opposes Bush. Majorities also say Bush should allow UN weapons inspectors to return to Iraq, and they question his motives. These findings are hardly conclusive. But they suggest a trend, a rising level of distrust; they are reason to believe that Bush may yet be given pause.

That the anti-Bush, silenced majority feels it is being ignored by politicians and the mainstream media is abundantly clear from unsolicited American responses to a critique of this week's Cincinnati national address by Bush published on the Guardian's website* and on US links. This random sample also indicates rapidly rising anxiety, frustration and anger about Iraq, and Bush himself. Here, perhaps, the authentic voice of America may be heard.

"I have never seen so much bullshit thrown at the American public in my lifetime, with too many people thinking it may be true if the president says it," emails a 77-year-old from Manchester, New Hampshire. "We are being rail roaded into war over here. I am astounded by our president and his tactics utilising fear," says one writer. "When I voted for Bush I had no idea what he would unleash," says another. An Arizonan believes that Bush is "a complete and pathetic idiot ... I think enough Americans are beginning to see that the real regime change needs to take place at the White House". "The Bush presidency should have been nipped in the bud by the supreme court," writes an Illinois resident. "We've been bamboozled and Congress doesn't seem to know what to do." From Maryland comes the cry: "As an American I am totally speechless at whatever emanates from Bush's mouth - I mean, my 12-year-old son would make a better president." In New York, some feel the same way. "To attack with so little proof is ghastly ... As someone who smelled the World Trade Center and its human occupants burn every day for three months, I do not wish that fate on the long-suffering Iraqi people."

An emailer from Bush's Texas believes "all he is trying to do is divert attention from his failure as a leader ... under Bush we are giving up all our civil rights in the name of fighting the war on terror. If we do not agree with him, we are anti-American." A Californian agrees: "The American media shows complete indifference to ... the opinions of many if not most Americans (of whom) a majority are against this stupid adventure." "As an older American who loves her country, I am terrified," writes Katie Redd. "Younger Americans just do not seem to realise the dangers of this arrogant, stupid little man. I pray God will help us - because our main press glorifies him and few congressmen oppose him." A resident of lower Manhattan says Bush is beginning to sound like a "movie trailer for Creatures with an Atom Brain".

Indeed, Americans are far more scathing about Bush than supposedly anti-American Europeans. "Redneck pea-brain" is one epithet; "King George", "Lord High Executioner" and "imperialist" are others. "Insane" and "madman" crop up a lot. "Loony" says a psychiatrist from Ohio. "Corporate terrorist" says a vexed lady from Florida. There are voices from the other side, of course, enraged by foreign criticism. "Stupid, ignorant asshole ... Pathetic limey twit ... Islamofascist apologist ... Snotty eurotrash ... Parasitic appeasers ... When we want your opinion, we'll come over there and beat it out of you!" But the balance is 9-1 against.

Yet crucially, amid all this angst and ire, Iraq is not the big issue on American minds. All polls agree that the economy and jobs are the main concern. Up to 60% do not approve of Bush's economic stewardship; that figure is rising. Feeding in are worries about Enron-type corruption, the stock market plunge and dwindling personal saving accounts. Despite Bush's politics of fear, what Americans are really frightened of is deepening recession. And they rightly suspect that a costly Middle East war, oil shocks and spreading financial instability could make matters much, much worse. As Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid". In America, it always is. Here is the mortal gap in Bush's war armour. Here, in the prospect of following his father into one-term obloquy, is what could yet stop Bush on Iraq.

Americans worry about Iraq. They worry about their own country more. And Bush, not Saddam, is pig in the middle. "This man is destroying our nation piece by piece," writes Jewel from Missouri. "We, the unheard American public, pray that the world realises that we have a fool in charge and he does not speak for us."

guardian.co.uk