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To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (33584)10/13/2002 7:42:06 PM
From: Stan  Respond to of 39621
 
Abraham "barren" and "infertile"? I don't think so!

Emile, it is clear that the Paul declares Abraham's body was dead, i.e. infertile, according to Romans 4:19 Romans 4:19 "And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:"

What else does "now dead" and "deadness" mean other than infertility in both of them?

The sons of Keturah prove that fertility is restored to Abraham at about the age of one hundred. Recall that Hannah had other children beside Samuel, and Rachel had two children after her womb is opened. So, why shouldn't Abraham have sons after Isaac? Why would God restore fertility for just one act and promptly remove it?

Plus, there is no record of Keturah being infertile, but, the Israelites have 4 barren parents in their original lineage: Abraham, Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel; thus, their uniqueness as a miracle nation.

Further, I am not taking focus from Jesus and the church as you maintain I am doing. I am acknowledging that the Bible, in verses too numerous to state here, plainly promises the nation of Israel an eternal place in the plan of God upon the earth as well, which you seem keen to deny.

Or, am I reading you wrong? I am curious to hear your position about the eventual disposition of the nation of Israel, i.e. the flesh descendants of the twelve tribes with regard to their inheritance in their homeland.

Thanks.

Stan



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (33584)10/13/2002 10:23:13 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Emile,

I am not sure you will remember this, but I figured I would try...

A while ago, we were discussing how people in the Old and New Testament times. My assertion was everyone was always saved the same. You did not think so. You said you would study it, and get back to me.

Did you ever follow up on that study?

God Bless,
IGIT