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To: Tom D who wrote (61846)	10/14/2002 4:34:17 AM
From: Elroy	Respond to of 77400

Are you saying your proof that Islam liberates and empowers women is the state of women in Iran and Pakistan? Not very persuasive. Both of your examples pick out one single quote (the Irasnian cleric) or give one single person (Bhutto) when your proof should be in the form of an Islamic society. Show me one that empowers women as much as the Dutch empower their babes.... Or are you saying there are no Islamic societies, just corrupt chauvanistic regimes?

To: Tom D who wrote (61846)	10/14/2002 8:21:33 AM
From: RetiredNow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77400

OT Oh jeez, Tom, are you buying that crap? Just in the last week or so, I read an article on CNN about how some woman kissed a guy on the forehead when she was presenting him with some award and a public awards ceremony. Everyone who was present said it was the kiss of a mother to a son. However, Islam forbids physical contact between a woman and a stranger. So the next thing you know the Ayatollah, who is the true supreme leader of Iran not Khatami, decided that they needed to crack down on women in the country to ensure that Islamic values weren't being eroded by the reformism that was trying to assert itself in the country. Tom, I know why you are trying to defend them. We all want to believe the best of everyone. However, at some point, we have to wake up to the facts and start using common sense to find the truth. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and has feathers, then in all likelihood, it's a duck. As I've said before, these threads are the only place I'm not constrained by political correctness. So I'll say it again, there is something seriously flawed with Islam and the way the religion is used to repress people in the Middle East today.