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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: aladin who wrote (51944)	10/14/2002 9:55:04 AM
From: Mr. Forthright	Respond to of 281500

Message 18109816 Message 18109828

To: aladin who wrote (51944)	10/14/2002 10:14:41 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Please consider that my views are not anti-American, although they do oppose the foreign policies of the current US administration. Just like it is possible to oppose Sharon policies without being anti-Semitic. I have nothing against Americans or against the ideals and way of life of Americans. It is the current Administration and its bullying attitudes that I oppose, which, incidentally, I do not believe are justified just because America has seen a big terrorist attack. I would not consider myself "pro-European" either, although most European countries seem to agree with me on these points, for which I am glad. However, I certainly do not remember defending the past of European countries, nor do I remember blaming the US for its past. > On the American side you dredge up anything > from our past you can find. Not really. Had I been so inclined, it would, admittedly, be a target-rich environment (slavery, annihilation of the native Indians, anyone?) but I have not mentioned any of past errors. Those things are in the past. Now, however, we pride ourselves as being "modern" people who would not repeat those hideous acts, because we are much more humane and we have higher ethics. I see a regression in US politics to the days of brute force making everything right, and the stronger countries invading others with no regard for human costs to get what they want. This really scares me. It also scares me to see, even in SI discussions, that most Americans are not conscious of the possible repurcussions of their leader's foreign acts - occupying countries, killing thousands of their people, etc is a very sure way of increasing the animosity towards the US, which, in turn, will surely lead to other terrorist acts. I believe in more humane solutions to international conflicts. And, definitely no, the fact that America has been grounds to a horrible terrorist act does not give it the right to go charging to any country it wants to. That's my opinion, anyway. And it is not anti-American.

To: aladin who wrote (51944)	10/14/2002 11:58:12 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

John, You make provocative, pro-European, anti-American comments that invite (or should I say incite) responses. Let me disagree with you vigorously. Zonder has hung in nicely, defended his views nicely, and been a genuine addition to the thread. As opposed to Robert Grutza, to whom zonder's post responds. Moreover, one of the things wrong with the present debate, not only on this thread, but in general, is the notion that taking what has come to be called a "European view" is somehow "anti-American." Where is it written that to be critical of something about the US is to make one anti-American? Do all those vituperative criticisms of the Clinton administration in the 90s make the the critics anti-American? Of course not.

To: aladin who wrote (51944)	10/14/2002 3:14:54 PM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Respond to of 281500

>> Melbourne social historian Janet McCalman reflected on "good folks" in the US "who don't read quality newspapers or watch public broadcasting or travel overseas unprotected by tourist buses...enveloped in the bubble of American insularity...[who thereby suffer from]...lowly place in the affections of the poor and the struggling".<< You gotta love those uninsulated social sciences types: no bubbles, no envelopes, just life as it is...on the raw edge, armed with nothing but quality newspapers and public broadcasting. >>It is true that some Americans have little knowledge of the rest of the world, but it is also a matter of fact that some commentators in Europe and Australasia have a minimal understanding of the US.<< "Some commentators" is surely an understatement.