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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Ilaine who wrote (53270)10/19/2002 9:54:59 PM
From: Nadine Carroll  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
A step toward peace on the Temple Mount BY SHALOM FREEDMAN

When Moshe Dayan, in the wake of Israel's stunning victory in 1967, decided to give control of religious worship to the Muslim Wafq, his thought was that this would prevent future conflict over the holy site.

Despite the strong objection of then IDF chief rabbi Shlomo Goren, Dayan believed that the Jews should content themselves with praying at the Western Wall, which is where they had prayed during the time of the British Mandate.

Dayan, a secular Jew with little understanding of Jewish religious life and practice, brushed aside Rabbi Goren's claim that the heart of Jewish aspiration for two thousand years of exile had been the Holy of Holies, on the Temple Mount.

When Rabbi Goren subsequently tried to establish a prayer service at the edges of the Temple Mount (in those areas which he had determined Jews can pray without any fear of violating the Halachic prohibition), Dayan put a stop to his efforts. And in the 35 years since, when Jews have "had control" over the Temple Mount, no Jewish prayer service has been allowed there. In fact, it is even forbidden for a Jew to go up alone, take out a prayer book, and and pray silently to God there. Thus, as Rabbi Goren pointed out even in 1967, the shameful situation had been created in which Jews were absolutely forbidden to pray in the single place holiest to them.

Subsequent years have not brought the peaceful and harmonious relations which Dayan had hoped for. There have been many violent confrontations on the Temple Mount, the worst being on Oct. 8, 1990 when 17 people lost their lives in the rioting there.

The Waqf has increasingly engaged in its own independent policy, and has done what it could not only to strengthen the Muslim hold on the whole area (by among other actions building two new mosques there), but also to erase all traces of Jewish presence there.

It has engaged in unsupervised construction work which has damaged valuable archaeological sites.
It has shown no willingness to recognize any Jewish claim to the Mount. In fact, religious teachers and scholars in the Wafq and throughout the Islamic world have taken pains to deny that there ever was a Jewish presence on the Mount.
By giving in and being wholly generous to Muslim religious claims, Dayan helped ensure that there would be no recognition whatsoever of Jewish connection to the Mount.

THE SITUATION on the Temple Mount bears close resemblance to that of Jews and Arabs particularly Palestinians in relation to the conflict between them in general. The whole educational system of the Palestinians and the Arab world teaches that the Jews have no rights and no history in the land, teaches that they are merely usurpers, Crusaders of a new kind, whose very presence in the land is historical anomaly, an evil which is not to be tolerated.

It is not surprising, then, that peace has not come even when there have been concessions on the part of Israel. Peace cannot come, no matter how much one side gives, if the other side is not ready for it. The Palestinians rejected the offer of a state with Jerusalem as its capital, as it would have involved their having to come to accept a permanent Jewish presence in the land.

Perhaps Israel would have been wiser had it in 1967 followed the path recommended by Goren and built a synagogue on those areas at the edge of the Mount where Jews are permitted to be present. The mosques would have remained the center of Muslim worship, but the Jews, whose Messianic aspiration is for the building of the Temple (Perhaps in the very spot where the Dome of the Rock stands), would have contented themselves with a lesser place. There would have been a "sharing" of the holy site.

This would not have satisfied the maximalist claims of either side. It might, however, have made the Muslims more conscious, not of the imaginary, but of the real claims of the other side. It might have helped them come more realistically to terms with the Jews as constituting an essential part of the Holy Land reality. It might not have brought a final and lasting and complete solution, but it would most likely have been a step in the direction of real peace.

Given the problematic situation of Temple Mount worship today it would seem that a new arrangement and agreement must be made between both sides. The state of Israel has no religious mandate to "give" sovereignty to another religion and people over the Temple Mount. But it could recognize the de facto reality of Muslim control over the mosque area, and could oblige itself not to undermine this situation. In turn, it could insist on the right to have its own place of worship on the Temple Mount. It could also insist on what it should have, but has not, insisted on from the beginning: freedom of worship a right for all faiths to pray on the Temple Mount.

This would not be the end of days, or the restoration of the Temple, or the flowing of all the peoples of the world to the Mountain of the Lord in Zion. It would not be the complete realization of Jewish religious aspiration.
It might, however, be a step toward peace and reconciliation between Jews and Muslims, which could then be carried over into other areas and lead to a kind of compromise one which, ideally, would lead to a better and more peaceful world for all.

The writer is currently doing research for a biography on the late former Chief Rabbi Shlomo Goren.
jpost.com



To: Ilaine who wrote (53270)10/21/2002 2:42:24 AM
From: Bilow  Respond to of 281500
 
Hi CobaltBlue; Re 25% casualty rates. I would think that that is about right for small combat units. But with modern warfare, there are so few people that are actually in the cutting edge, that 25% losses in the combat units amounts to only a few percent losses in the army as a whole.

To get to the 70% losses in the German army they had to reconstitute units over and over. This also happened in US units. One of my relatives was in a company in WW1 which had only a handful of people from the original company (size ~120) who were still active duty by the end of the war. The rest were killed or wounded. That was with the Marines.

My own family's handed down stories from the Civil War were of such a negative character that it was surprising that any youth at all enlisted for WW1, the next really big war. I would guess that the experience of the Spanish American War, with its high death rate due to disease, would have also provided some nasty stories, but none of those are passed down through my family.

But the ignoring of what war is like is a common trait of the human race. Young men feel a need to prove their competence at war (which I, too, once felt when I was young). It is this martial ardor that is reborn with each generation despite the lessons learned by the previous that accounts for my noting that previous military disasters do not reduce a country's will to fight, after the passage of one generation (i.e. 20 years).

My family history in the Civil war, or at least the one that has come down my line, is that four brothers enlisted in the cavalry, donating their own horses to the Southern cause. At least one of them was with Hood's Brigade. The government agreement was that in the unlikely event that their horses were hurt or lost, the Confederacy would supply them with new ones. Along the way, they'd be paid as cavalrymen.

Well it turns out that horses don't last very long on battlefields, and the Confederacy didn't have any horses to provide them with (my guess is that those horses that the Confederacy did have went to people better connected than small time Texas ranchers). So their horses, a very valuable asset to a man living in the West in those years, were gone, and they became regular soldiers instead of cavalrymen. Their pay was appropriately dropped. This happened quite quickly, before they were out as long as 6 months.

During the course of the war, one was killed, another was so badly wounded that he was in a hospital for a half year after the war. At the end of the war they ended up in various parts of the Eastern US. None of them were provided transportation back to Texas, either by the US or the States that they had defended. Instead, they had to walk back. They had no shoes. Along the way, they had to take odd jobs to earn money or food. Of course they slept in the open or as God would provide.

The economy in the South was depressed after the war and finding those odd jobs was very difficult. In addition, the distance they had to walk amounted to about two thousand miles (~3000 km), so between the walking and the working, and one of them taking a detour to farm in Georgia (not the most attractive thing to a man with ranching in his blood) it was 8 years before the last of the survivors made it back to Texas.

Oh, and their pay. They were paid in something called "Confederate Money", which turned out to be completely worthless, except as a collector's item. Of course, being practical men, they didn't bother to save any of it, and it would have been too heavy to carry that long distance anyway.

-- Carl