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To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (8132)	10/20/2002 2:39:36 AM
From: Techplayer	Respond to of 57110

That would be an interesting addition to the mix... I was just reading this: Message 18134730 there are a couple of other equally depressing articles linked there... <g>

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (8132)	10/20/2002 2:47:39 AM
From: Techplayer	Respond to of 57110

Jorj, I was also reading in a couple of areas that there were mutual fund outflows this week but I have not seen the published trimtabs numbers. If that is the case, shorts must have been running scared... TP

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (8132)	10/20/2002 5:36:01 AM
From: X Y Zebra	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 57110

The Fiat saga continues... In the following piece, I read bewteen the lines the following: (Conclusion GM just may add to its mounting problems.) 1. Fiat, sees no solution to his problem with the unions, there is a provision within the Italian government that they can "participate in the company", in order NOT to let it fail, Fiat elects for such proposal and plead to the Italian government. 2. The Italian government, headed by Berlusconi (a former enterpreneur in his own right), sees the potential problems and sees no hope in taking a stake in Fiat, regardless of what the program in the government would allow. So they bail... because... 3. The banks who are on the hook as well for three billion Euros may have no choice but to convert that loan to equity.... AND... 4. There is a previous agreement with GM under which FIAT will sell the balance of the shares to GM... (However GM says that if there are ANY changes in who controls FIAT they are out... this should happen not before 2004 So why put the Italian government at risk when there is a bigger fool out there... 5. Conclusion... FIAT seems to be history, a bad apple rotting and now in the hands (possibly ) of GM which bodes NOT well fo them. Is this a path to repeat for companies with debt and union trouble (not to mention underfunded pensions)... _____________________ Italy Puts Idea of State Stake in Fiat on Hold Saturday October 19th, 2002 By Tiziana Barghini Italy's government has put on hold the possibility of buying a stake in Fiat, a source said on Friday as the Treasury appointed investment bank Morgan Stanley to help tackle a crisis at the carmaker. With Fiat workers downing tools in a general strike against the government's general economic policies on Friday - the latest in a string of stoppages at Fiat's car plants - a source at the Treasury said a state stake in Fiat was off the table for now. "The hypothesis of a direct intervention in the (Fiat) group share capital has been frozen," the source said, adding: "It never got to the stage of asking the question of whether (we would invest) in the group or the auto unit." Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has said his government will seek to strengthen Italy's struggling auto sector, raising speculation that the state, along with banks, might buy into Fiat, which has seen its losses balloon as sales slumped. The government wants to "safeguard" Fiat's six factories in Italy and has come under pressure from within its own alliance as well as the powerful Catholic Church to soften Fiat's plan to lay off 20 percent of its Italian auto workforce. Trade unions have taken up the Fiat cause and at marches across Italy on Friday to mark a one-day general strike called by Italy's biggest labour confederation, demonstrators demanded two Fiat plants marked for closure should stay open. But in a blow to the government's hopes of finding fresh cash for Fiat and reducing the job losses, the group's creditor banks this week said they would not buy into struggling car arm Fiat Auto and stood by the group's cost-cutting purge. The banks are believed to want Fiat's controlling Agnelli family to dig into their own pockets by selling off assets within their vast business empire, which ranges from cars and trucks to department stores, insurance and publishing. The head of Fiat Auto Giancarlo Boschetti held a "technical meeting" with representatives of the creditor banks in Turin on Friday, said a banking source. Umberto Hints Again at Lower Agnelli Influence Umberto Agnelli said on Friday that the family holding companies Ifil and Ifi, which he heads, would see their combined, controlling stake in Fiat fall from about 30 percent now if the creditor banks decided to convert a three billion-euro loan into Fiat equity. Under the loan agreement struck in May, the banks have the option of turning the loan into equity if Fiat misses a target to halve its net debts by early 2003. Agnelli has previously said the stake might not always be "strategic" for the holding companies and Friday's comments appeared to repeat the suggestion that the family's influence could wane after more than 100 years in charge of Fiat. To help tackle the crisis at Italy's biggest private sector employer, the government on Friday named Morgan Stanley as an advisor. A Treasury source said the government wanted the bank to "monitor the financial sustainability of the (Fiat) group", but no further details were immediately available on Morgan Stanley's role. Fiat needs support from the government so it can access state funds to cover the cost of the planned redundancies. Fiat has an option to sell General Motors Corp. the remaining 80 percent of Fiat Auto from 2004. GM already owns 20 percent. This week, GM said the option would be eliminated if there was a change in control of the Fiat group. Fiat Auto is expected to lose more than one billion euros this year. Business magazine Il Mondo said on Friday that more than a third of the car division's capital stock had been wiped out since a 1.8 billion-euro recapitalisation in May and June. With Fiat unable to reverse a slide in its Italian market share to a record low of under 29 percent, most analysts say the best solution is the sale of its auto division to GM in 2004. Published at 12:27:00 GMT atlasf1.com access by subscription