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To: slacker711 who wrote (2583)	10/21/2002 11:21:29 AM
From: Eric L	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9255

I think I have a decent amount of patience....but waiting for GPRS success is beginning to remind me of waiting for Godot. LOL! Ilmarinen got you reading Samuel Beckett I see. I guess every wireless investor should read "Waiting for Godot". If you have a decent amount of patience, help me overcome my impatience waiting for a decent tri-mode to go on Verizon's shelves with a sensibly priced data plan, and a packet data service I would be willing to pay a sensible price for. I suppose I could buy the data kit for my wife's KYO 2235, but that phone, which is probably the single largest selling 1xRTT model in the world (at least the most widely stocked) outside of Korea and Japan is clearly a 2nd generation phone, and a pretty good example of what is not one of the "new generation" phones I was referring to. The T720 is getting there but we are probably 3 flashes away from getting that one right and it is still 1xRTT data in modem mode only. << The issue of speed is basically a non-starter for me. It would be a nice addition but I doubt that speed alone could justify the cost. >> We agree on that. IF EDGE is justified it will be justified by a configurable combination of speed, data capacity, and QoS relative to the cost of the upgrade. Essentially it involves the same analyses and justification laid against potential revenue increase as a commitment to WCDMA would involve. << The gist of your response seems to be that there is no compelling reason to upgrade to EDGE currently but once GPRS takes off there will be ... for older deployments. This would seem to make sense only AFTER GPRS begins to overwhelm system capacity. >> To me, it makes sense to do this BEFORE GPRS begins to overwhelm system capacity and frustrates users. Now whether carriers see it this way or not is another story in this capital constrained market. The carriers of course will also want handsets available (from multiple manufacturers) before they bring EDGE networks live, while the vendors would like to have the networks upgraded and optimized before they deliver multiple models of handsets in quantity so we have that age old tug of war complicated by unusual cap ex restraints. Relative to bit-rate IMJ made what I consider to be a very astute comment 6 to 9 months back. He was addressing available new generation applications (or lack of same) and he made a statement to the affect that applications aside, color displays required higher bit-rate from the outset to deliver a satisfactory user experience relative to speed of screen draws and resolution. << Any ideas on the amount of horsepower that EDGE will require in handsets? >> Many more MIPS as compared to GSM or GSM GPRS but somewhat less than WCDMA. GSM Voice required about 15 MIPS EDGE maybe 200 MIPS and upwards of 300 depending on the app. This from TTPCom is a bit dated (and I don't buy there comments about QoS) but it addresses this ... 3gamericas.org Particularly in these slides ... • DSP Edge Viterbi (2) • DSP Processing Requirements • DSP Summary In Anssi's slides (#5 - "Processing Power: following the track) from the Sonera event he graphs currently available DSP processing power in MIPS against power consumption over a period of the last several years and shows WCDMA video requiring 300 MIPS and I am assuming that is what the 6650 delivers. - Eric -

To: slacker711 who wrote (2583)	10/21/2002 11:55:00 AM
From: Eric L	Respond to of 9255

re: TTPcom EDGE presentation. I may have furnished an incomplete URL for the TTPcom EDGE presentation in the prior post. This should work (but best to download): 3gamericas.org If not, this one in different format will: 3gamericas.org - Eric -

To: slacker711 who wrote (2583)	10/21/2002 7:30:20 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 9255

"waiting for Godot". if that is how you feel, I think you should either read the script or watch it a couple of times. Maybe you then will stop feeling like waiting for Godot. Ilmarinen Somehow I think maybe 90-99% of those quoting Beckett has never really spent more than a soundbite on him, which, funnily, is exactly what he was trying to point out.

To: slacker711 who wrote (2583)	10/21/2002 7:43:23 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 9255

Interstingly I think it was S100 who had some hands-on practice on both line printers and replacing old equipment, for less cost than it took to service the old one. This is obviously somewhat more complicated for those with motorola and some other unlucky ones equipment, more a question of how to gradually replace the vendor and not just upgrade the equipment, which barely moves around some SMS messages every 10-20th minute, ouch that Crap called Wap. But for the rest of the smarter ones, EDGE is just as easy as MMS. Ilmarinen But who would be so cruel as to wish those unlucky operators something as bad as having to deal with sloppy, underperforming, barely surviving great CEOs, not to forget employees going postal, the few that there are left. nokia.com