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To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (2172)10/22/2002 8:58:34 AM
From: lorne  Respond to of 2926
 
Scholars: Oldest evidence of Jesus?
By Jeordan Legon
Monday, October 21, 2002
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A limestone burial box, almost 2,000 years old, may provide the oldest archeological record of Jesus of Nazareth, according to several experts who announced the finding Monday.

The ossuary, as the bone boxes are known, dates to A.D. 63 and has an inscription in Aramaic which translates to: "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus," said Andre Lemaire, an expert in ancient writing who identified the writing on the box in Jerusalem last spring.

Aramaic, an ancient Semitic language, was the lingua franca of the Middle East for many centuries. At the time of Jesus' life, Aramaic was the common language of the Jews. Hebrew was the language of government, religion and the upper classes.

Writing about his findings in the new issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Lemaire, who teaches at the Sorbonne in Paris, called it "very probable" that the box belonged to Jesus' brother James, who by Christian tradition was the leader of the early church in Jerusalem.

Some scholars expressed doubt that the box, which is 20 inches long by 11 inches wide, could be definitively linked to Jesus, a Jewish carpenter by trade revered by Christians as the son of God.

"We may never be absolutely certain. In the work I do we're rarely absolutely certain about anything," said Kyle McCarter, a Johns Hopkins University archaeologist, who said that the finding was probable, but that he had "a bit of doubt."

While most scholars agree that Jesus existed, no physical evidence from the first century has ever been conclusively tied with his life.

Two scientists from the Israeli government's geological survey tested the box last month, inspecting the surface patina and inscription under a microscope. They concurred that the object is more than 19 centuries old, the archaeology magazine reported.

"It's hard to avoid the conclusion that these three names refer to the personages so identified in the New Testament," said Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review.

Many of the conclusions reached by experts relied on the inscription written on the ossuary. The boxes commonly were used by Jewish families between 20 B.C. and A.D. 70 to store the bones of their loved ones.

Lemaire said out of hundreds of such boxes found with Aramaic writing only two contain mentions of a brother. From this, scholars infer that the brother was noted only when he was someone important.

James, Joseph and Jesus were common names in ancient Jerusalem, a city of about 40,000 residents. Lemaire estimates there could have been as many as 20 Jameses in the city with brothers named Jesus and fathers named Joseph.

But it is unlikely there would have been more than one James who had a brother of such importance that it merited having him mentioned on his ossuary, Lemaire said.

Lemaire found the box in June by accident, said Shanks, who was able to inspect the box personally.

The owner is reported to be a collector of ancient Jewish artifacts. The man, who wishes to remain anonymous, bought the box some 15 years ago from an antique dealer for $200 to $700, Shanks said.

The boxes "are not popular on the market because ... people don't want a bone box in their living room," Shanks said.

The collector, who is Jewish, was not aware that Jesus had a brother. He discovered the interest in the object only when he met Lemaire at a dinner party last spring and asked him to decipher some Aramaic written on a number of collectibles, Shanks said.

The box owner "didn't realize the significance," Shanks said. "He threw up his hands, 'How could the Son of God have a brother?'"

Plans are under way to exhibit the box at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto, Canada, during the annual meeting of Bible scholars in November, Shanks said.

But he said whether the box belonged to Jesus' brother, it still provides a powerful link with the past.

"This is something that provides a bridge over time," he said. "My reaction is not so much excitement as it is awe."
cnn.com



To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (2172)10/23/2002 2:10:10 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2926
 
Italian author slams Islam's 'hate' for West
By Tom Carter
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The Islamic world is engaged in a cultural war with the West and the worst is still to come, Italian author Oriana Fallaci told a receptive Washington audience last night

Spinning off a long list of Islamic countries, she told a group of about 80 people: "The hate for the West swells like a fire fed by the wind.
"The clash between us and them is not a military one. It is a cultural one, a religious one, and the worst is still to come," she continued in what she said was her first public address in more than a decade.
Tight security was in place for the speech at the American Enterprise Institute after death threats were issued against her and her attorney as a result of her latest book, "The Rage and the Pride," which contains harsh criticism of Muslims.
The book, which she called a "sermon" to Europe, was written in New York in the two weeks after September 11 as the smoke and dust from the destruction of the World Trade Center blanketed the city.
Miss Fallaci contends in the angry polemic that the only difference between "moderate Islam" and "radical Islam" is the length of their beards.
She said last night that critics have attempted to ban the book or have her arrested in France, Belgium, Switzerland and Italy. The 72-year-old author described these efforts as "intellectual terrorism."
Miss Fallaci, who lives in New York and is afflicted with cancer, also criticizes Western culture for its loose morals and licentiousness.
"Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights," she said.
In her prime, Miss Fallaci was famed as a belligerent journalist and argumentative interviewer, who had unprecedented access to the world's most reclusive and wary leaders.
A partisan in the Italian resistance in World War II and a lifelong leftist, she once became so disgusted while interviewing Iran's Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini that she ripped off her head scarf and threw it in his face.
The act of defiance was considered an unpardonable sin in the ayatollah's Iran.
"The Rage and the Pride," originally published in an Italian newspaper and then as a book, has sold more than 1 million copies in Italy and has been popular in Germany and France as well. All three nations have large Muslim immigrant populations.
Variously praised as the painful truth or decried as a "bigoted, anti-Muslim screed," Miss Fallaci's book is under threat of judicial action in France for inciting racial hatred.
A lawsuit brought by the Movement Against Racism and for Friendship Between People, a Muslim human rights group, is demanding that the book be banned in France.
In a ruling yesterday that may affect her case, a French court acquitted best-selling French author Michel Houellebecq of charges of racial insult and inciting racial hatred for calling Islam the "dumbest religion."
The Paris court threw out the case brought by officials from the main mosques in Paris and the central-eastern city of Lyon and other Muslim groups after an interview Mr. Houellebecq gave to the French literary magazine Lire.
"The dumbest religion, after all, is Islam," he told the magazine. "When you read the Koran, you're shattered. The Bible at least is beautifully written because the Jews have a heck of a literary talent."
While the court ruled that the 44-year-old author's comments were "without a doubt characterized by neither a particularly noble outlook nor by the subtlety of their phrasing," they did not constitute a punishable offense.
While Mr. Houellebecq indeed had expressed hatred for Islam as a religion, the court said, he had not expressed hatred for Muslims, nor did he encourage others to share his views or discriminate against Muslims.
Miss Fallaci, in her first book in more than 10 years, said she was prompted to write by demonstrations throughout the Muslim world and in pockets of Europe celebrating the September 11 attacks on the United States.
Her anger, based on years of reporting in Muslim countries, is evident. Her detractors call the work an incitement to kill Muslims.
Unrepentant, Miss Fallaci calls the downing of the Twin Towers an act of cultural war and says the superior Western civilization must stand up and defeat Islam.
"War you wanted, war you want? Good. As far as I am concerned, war it is and war it will be. Until the last breath," she writes.
washtimes.com



To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (2172)10/24/2002 1:44:59 AM
From: uu  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 2926
 
And what a surprise everyone! The most dangerous man in America is a newly coverted Muslim by the name of John Allen Mohammad who is seeked out in connection with the sniper attacks in the Washington D.C. area..

Mohammad (may piss be upon him) was the founder of this satanic cult, and he sure has some really interesting followers who in respect to their founder of cult tend to name themselves after him (e.g. Mohammad Atta, and 17 out of the 19 thugs of the 9/11 tragedy had Mohammad as part of their names, and now this sniper guy who also is potentially just another "Mohammad"! )!!

What truly saddens me the most is the political correctness that continues to hide the true nature of this satanic cult (otherwise known as Islam)!

"A federal arrest warrant has been issued for John Allen Mohammed,



To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (2172)10/24/2002 3:00:15 PM
From: E  Respond to of 2926
 
Does anyone know whether there's a thread on SI on which legal matters are discussed? I ask here because although the specific question that a friend (an atheist friend) posed in my email today relates to immigration law, the subject relates directly to religion, and by unfortunate implication, to Islam.

Maybe someone here knows the answer, or knows if there's a thread on legal topics.

Here's the email:

In the course of this mornings breakfast babbling, I suggested to ___ that
in view of the religious nuts that are blowing things up, maybe it was time
the US stopped insisting that those applying for citizenship affirm that
they believe in God. ___ challenged me on my facts. I remember being told
that in history class in high school. Do you know if that's still true? How
does one ascertain something like that?