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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (53829)	10/22/2002 5:51:20 AM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

"Communism has been the greatest social engineering experiment we have ever seen. It failed utterly and in doing so it killed over 100,000,000 men, women, and children, not to mention the near 30,000,000 of its subjects that died in its often aggressive wars and the rebellions it provoked." hawaii.edu bland@bitingmytongue.ouch.ouch.ouchouchouch

To: zonder who wrote (53829)	10/22/2002 6:50:52 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

One of these days I am going to have to read Das Kapital -- I am told that it is actually rather good in spots. It may well be that Marx would have not recognized totalitarian communism as the result of his theories, I can't honestly say. I do think it's interesting, historically, that after the French revolution, free market capitalists sat in the left wing of the French assembly, along with those who believed in democracy and other revolutionaries. Thus, democracy and free market capitalism were originally left wing ideas. But, sadly, the world has changed.

To: zonder who wrote (53829)	10/22/2002 9:11:05 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 281500

It came up in the course of discussing what lessons might be drawn from Indochina. What is called Communism is specifically Marxism- Leninism, which is committed to revolutionary violence and the dictatorial suppression of anything "counter- revolutionary". The Communists did not make the Russian Revolution, they hijacked it. The Revolution was led by the Cadets, a centrist party, and included all center- left parties. The Communists had a coup d'etat, disbanded the Duma (parliament) and began suppression of all opposing parties, including those that were left wing. It is not accidental that Communism has wrecked havoc wherever it has been, it is in the nature of the ideology. George Orwell, as a volunteer soldier in support of the Spanish Republic, observed first hand how Communists tried to run the whole show, and executed the leadership of other left wing groups on trumped up charges, somewhat like the "show trials" in Moscow, eliminating Stalin's rivals. When Khruschev introduced a "thaw", the Chinese broke with the Soviet Union because they considered Stalin the true heir of Lenin--- and, of course, Khruschev was eventually toppled by Breshnev and the neo-Stalinists. Both Communism and Nazism are basically committed to the idea that if you kill enough of the right people, life will be beautiful......

To: zonder who wrote (53829)	10/23/2002 12:49:27 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

Still, as an ideology, it is hardly "ruthless" (well-being of all, and not a select few, etc etc), although it has become fanatical in certain circles, Zonder.. do you know what the difference between capitalism and communism is?? With capitalism, man exploits man.. With communism,.. it's the other way around... No matter what form of government mankind chooses (or has imposed upon it), it must always take into account that basic principle and seek to moderate that natural instinct.. Hawk