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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (53938)	10/22/2002 12:56:29 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

SFD's one point is that it's all the fault of Israel. Actually, I thought his argument was more balanced than your rendition of it. It certainly balances your tendency to defend every Sharon action and condemn anything Palestinian. It's helpful to read both your posts. It should not surprise you that I agree with Win Smith's point that far too often this board becomes neocon 24/7. And, at times, the line simply rejects, out of hand, contrary posts. Your reaction to the Fisk post of yesterday is pretty clearly in that vein. This little forum works so long as it's a place for a multitude of very dissimilar voices. The minute it becomes all anything, it will become useless.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (53938)	10/22/2002 1:02:28 PM
From: carranza2	Respond to of 281500

I loved the link to Gideon's blog. Thanks! He skewers the Daily Californian, UC Berkeley's newspaper, for its report that the US might have had a role in the Bali blast, which even the newspaper corrected. Here's part of the original loony test. "The information received is that several groups are being looked at more closely," said Jeffrey Hadler, a UC Berkeley professor of South and Southeast Asian studies. "The most important thing is to wait for the investigation." But the United States may have been directly involved in the bombing in order to further its war on terrorism, he added. President Bush alleged Oct. 14 that Al Qaeda terrorists were behind the bombing because Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim country, Hadler said. The allegation also furthers Bush's call for war in Iraq, he said. "Al Qaeda has turned into this incredibly convenient phantom," he said. dailycal.com Some phantom. Hadler sounds like a complete idiot. Only in Berzekely.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (53938)	10/22/2002 1:23:43 PM
From: Sir Francis Drake	Respond to of 281500

SFD's one point is that it's all the fault of Israel. When he can't avoid blame on the Arabs, he retreats to the line of blaming a "few extremists", thus denying both the behavior and ideology of the Arafat, the PLO, Hamas, PIJ, Hizbullah, etc., or at at pinch, saying "well if Israel is so hated, it must deserve it because it STOLE all its land". This is total bs, and if you do favor a more factual & nuanced line you should not encourage it. Fortunately, Nadine is not the authority to burlesque my position. Fortunately, my posts stand as a matter of public record, and my views are contained there and can be read - no need for Nadine's Debka-style distortions. My position, which I have already enunciated clearly - I refer anyone to my posts - is quite clear. There are extremists on BOTH sides. However, the root cause of today's Israeli/Arab conflict is in Israeli expansion beyond the 67 borders - which btw. has NO legitimacy ANYWHERE in the world (and the settlements are not accepted even by the U.S.). A war, any war is a nasty thing. That includes a war of liberation - which is what the Palestinians are currently engaged in. During war, nasty things happen, and nasty people prosper. It is therefore no surprise that Arafat has blood on his hands - his terrorism against innocent third parties can never be forgiven. Yet, let us never forget, that Israel has created the Hamas, the Arafats, the PIJ, the Hizbollah through their policies. Israel could have given up the stolen post 67 land for a long time, but they chose not to. The Oslo Agreements were their best chance. Now that has been torpedoed. They have created a huge sea of hatred in the Arab/Muslim world, and want to drag the U.S. into it. As an American I want no part in that. I support Israel's right to exist peacefully in internationally recognized pre-67 borders. Nothing more, nothing less. Palestinians are not occupying Israel pre-67 territory. Israel is occupying Palestinian post-67 territory. That stolen land must be given back. Injustice will not stand.