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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (55062)	10/27/2002 9:48:30 PM
From: Win Smith	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Right. I know it's a subtle logical point, perhaps beneath the dignity of the great minds of the right, but lack of apoplectic condemnation does not imply endorsement. I haven't defended Belafonte, I take him about as seriously as I take you.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (55062)	10/28/2002 2:46:15 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

< haven't seen even ONE liberal out here admonish him or indicate that he should apologize for his remarks> Hawk, one of my problems these days is the definition of labels. I think he should apologize and have admonished him [here anyway but he probably didn't read my rant]. I've been called reactionary, communist, liberal, left wing, racist, neocon, right wing, extreme right wing and no doubt a lot more besides, but while my views have changed significantly over the past 35 years, the labels are more recent. Originally [age 18] I thought it better to have governments organize charity so that people don't fall through the cracks [lucky or skillful beggars doing much better than those hidden away]. I thought land couldn't really be owned as it's within a sovereign state so it should be leased to people wanting to use it. Which actually is the case now though the annual rent is nil, with people owning the land as tenants in fee simple, effectively leasing it from the Crown. The rent isn't actually nil however as people are obliged to pay rates on the assessed value of the land [which causes a problem when the racist Treaty of Waitangi perpetual tribal ownership of land is considered]. I also thought states could do things more sensibly and efficiently - such as having health protection by controlling food quality, vaccination needs and so on, a single bus going down a road instead of 5 different buses competing for the same passengers, a single airline etc. Avoiding the collection cost of road tolls, entrance fees etc was another advantage of shared facilities. Now, having seen many thousands of instances of how things really work, in this and other countries, I realize states are always horrendously inefficient, and worse, are not managed with benevolent values but with greedy, grasping, crony pork barrel methods and values. Also, things need price-testing much more than I realized. Better to suffer the waste of the free market and competing suppliers with governments protecting private property, gaoling fraudsters and managing common resources to avoid tragedy of the commons type destruction. Anyway, I think I'm a liberal neocon with collectivist and democratic attitude to air quality, water supplies, ocean resources. I'm definitely not a racist - heck, I'd have anyone as a house-boy [or girl - not sexist either]. The labels seem to me almost useless and at best are used to avoid the need to reason a position. "Oh, he's a racist liberal". "Well, there's no need to think then! Let's get him. [or her]". It's almost as though anyone using one of those labels is admitting their argument has no value because they are using words with meanings so obscure that I get little value from them. If you say 'he's a liberal', I really don't know what the heck to think. I consider myself a liberal, yet my conclusions about this that and the other are considered to be extreme right wing [here in NZ anyway]. I support act.org.nz and have had quite a bit to do with their political success. I also support libertarianz.org.nz and named and prompted the start of The New Zealand Party, which turned NZ politics around in 1984. But I support a UN as Big Brother [without the overbearing aspects] to avoid the Arabian Nights style international anarchy we are currently using to run the show - the world is run using the Middle East shifting sands of political intrigue, which I'm sure people don't consider the ideal way to run a railroad. I'm for execution of certain criminal types. For adult choice for ingestion of poisonous substances [marijuana, heroin, opium, methamphetamine, cancer cures, coffee, cigarettes, euthanasia and so on]. For clean air, no CO2 controls. I object to House-boy Harry's comment about Colinization Powell. I thought the 3G spectrum auction in Britain was excellent [almost alone it seems] and still do. Tough luck for Vodafone et al. The citizens scored a beaut there, selling their commons for a pretty penny. I wonder if Faultline could publish an approved schedule of meanings of political labels so we can know just what the heck a "Left-wing liberal racist, neocon greenie statist, commie reactionary sexist" is. Politics and history don't repeat but they rhyme. Don't let a slogan do your thinking for you! Mqurice [nor a label or cliche]