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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: David Lawrence who wrote (312557)	10/31/2002 3:55:33 AM
From: craig crawford	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

>> That's total crap << i dare you to prove what i said to be untrue. >> Israel did the world a favor by taking out the Osiraq facility. THe reactor was there for no other purpose than to provide plutonium in significant amounts for use in Saddam's weapons program << you are simply regurgitating jewish-fed propaganda that you have heard in the mainstream american press. go ahead hotshot. prove it for me. PROLIFERATION MODULE ssc.upenn.edu On 7 June 1981, Israel aircraft destroyed the Iraqi Osiraq nuclear reactor near Baghdad (Osiraq is the name given by the French supplier; the Iraqi government refers to it as the Tammuz 1 nuclear reactor). The attack represents the first and only time a nuclear power has attacked an adversary in the hope of destroying or delaying the adversary’s nuclear program. Israel argued that Iraq nuclear weapon development program represented a direct threat to Israeli security. Therefore, Israel justified the attack under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which permits force in self-defense. Few other states accepted the Israeli explanation. Politically, the raid was costly for Israel. Iraq had a long history of peaceful use of nuclear power. Iraq, which began construction on the Soviet supplied reactor in 1963, had operated it peacefully since 1969. Iraq became a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) in 1969. It had permitted IAEA inspections of Osiraq in 1976 when the Osiraq program began. The last IAEA inspection before the Israeli attack was January 1981. The IAEA reported no evidence of Iraq's intention to develop nuclear weapons and had accounted for all Iraq's nuclear material. In contrast, Israel had refused to sign the NPT and had kept its nuclear facilities secret. The United Nations Security Council condemned the Israeli attack as an act of aggression. The United States, Israel's strongest ally, was sympathetic to Iraq. Israeli diplomatic efforts to prevent the West's rapprochement with Iraq were significantly weakened. Iraq was soon supplied with arms by the United States in its fight with revolutionary Iran. Militarily, the attack was a great success, at least in the short term. Eight F-16 aircraft bombed the reactor, all scoring hits. The eight F16s and their six F15 fighter escorts escaped detection on the way in, flying south of Jordan through Saudi Arabian and then Iraqi airspace, and they escaped Iraqi airspace without any Iraqi retaliation. The attack was an embarrassment for Iraq's huge military. The reactor was completely destroyed and Iraq failed to import a replacement reactor. It appeared that Israel had stopped Iraq's nuclear program for good. But the victory was short lived. Having failed to secure a replacement reactor, Iraq turned to uranium enrichment programs in order to acquire weapons grade nuclear material. The natural uranium Iraq had already acquired (250 tons in 1981) and all further uranium it could acquire on the open market could be enriched on Iraqi soil and developed into nuclear weapons. There was no longer a need for a reactor. So in the long term, the Israeli attack did not delay the nuclear weapons program - it accelerated it by stimulating a sense of domestic political urgency. As a country living in an anarchic international system and facing an intense security dilemma, Iraq was compelled to expand its program and to identify Israel as a direct threat. Although United Nations weapons inspections following the Gulf War of 1991 did find evidence of a nuclear weapons program, they found no evidence that this program pre-dated 1981. Iraq was also encouraged to disperse its facilities to many secret locations, which made an subsequent Israeli attack next to impossible. The effectiveness of the Iraqi dispersion strategy was evident during the Persian Gulf War of 1991 when the United States and its allies launched thousands of sorties against Iraq but did not destroy many components of its nuclear program. The IAEA inspection system did not discourage Israel using force. Even though the Iraqi reactor was open to IAEA inspections, and the IAEA reported only peaceful use, Israel focused on the fact that Iraq would soon have all the material requirements for nuclear weapons, including: 1. sufficient quantities of weapons grade nuclear material; 2. sufficient technical knowledge; 3. sufficient technical equipment. The Osiraq reactor was significantly different from the older Soviet reactor. The Osiraq design had been used by France to extract weapons-grade plutonium. Israel apparently was indifferent to the fact that the IAEA found no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapon development program. Israel was convinced that Iraq could and would develop nuclear weapons when it felt the time to be opportune. At that point, Iraq could act between IAEA inspections, or prevent IAEA inspections entirely. The NPT allowed any signatory to withdraw with three months notice. Israel believed it had to strike before the reactor became operational and before the Iraqis upgraded their air defenses around Osiraq. So in this sense, the existence of a non-proliferation regime (which Israel had long refused to join) did not discourage the use of military force. Today, the international community faces difficult choices with respect to the Iraqi weapons development program. Evidence acquired after the Gulf War clearly indicated that the Iraqi government had deceived the IAEA and violated the non-proliferation treaty. For the first time, coercive inspections were ordered to seek information throughout the country. (In all other countries, the IAEA can only inspect designated locations.) Without the Allied victory, such coercive inspections would have been impossible. Unfortunately, Iraq has barred the inspectors from entering the country. In response, the United Nations has maintained economic and military sanctions that have severely injured civilians but have had little impact on the Iraqi government. Today, the great powers are deeply divided on the best policy to meet the widely shared goal of ending the Iraqi weapons development program. >> Israel was facing a madman with the stated intent of using nuclear weapons on them, and exercised their right of anticipatory self defense << prove it. >> When Saddam launched SCUD's at Israel, his intent was to kill civilians << so what is your point? >> When Israel took out Osiraq, their intent was to save civilians << ahh, of course. everything israel does is righteous and good and is deserving of the benefit of the doubt. everything arabs do is deserving of total skepticism. that is what the jewish-dominated media in america has brainwashed you to believe. >> You believe Saddam should have nuclear weapons << now you are putting words in my mouth. where did i say saddam should have nuclear weapons? run along and find where i said that! >> but not Israel which has been repeatedly attached by her neighbors? << this is the crux of the problem. your world view has been shaped and tainted by the jewish-domination of hollywood, television, radio, print media, and in government. it's not your fault. it's only natural for you to experience a kneejerk, sympathetic, defensive response when it comes to the topic of israel and the jews. it's totally understandable. you have been programmed to think that way by the jewish inculcators. this jewish-fed propagandist indoctrination has made you believe that israel is always attacked by her neighbors while only fighting in self-defense. this is simply false. israel has attacked her neighbors on multiple occasions and has even treacherously attacked her so-called ally the united states to try to cover up her naked aggression against her neighbors. why haven't you heard about this israeli treachery and aggression before? because you get your news filtered through the jewish-dominated mainstream press. we have to start with the basics. before you can be de-programmed and discover the truth, you must be receptive to the notion that jews have an overwhelming influence in american culture. if you would like me to prove that jews dominate the movies you watch, the television shows you watch, the newspaper and magazine articles you read, the radio shows you listen to, etc. i will be happy to do that for the benefit of everyone on the thread. >> Now who is being naive'? THe IAEA inspectors destroyed vast amounts of nuclear weapons materials during their inspections after the Kuwait war. Odd that a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty would be in possession of such materials. << does it strike you as odd that iraq is not interested in playing by the international rules when they already tried that before and got punished anyway? why should iraq co-operate with international weapons inspectors when in the past they were punished by israel for playing by the rules and opening up their nuclear facilities to inspection, while israel flagrantly thumbs its nose at all notions of playing by these same international rules?

To: David Lawrence who wrote (312557)	10/31/2002 8:06:47 AM
From: GROUND ZERO™	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 769667

You don't really expect to have an intelligent discussion with that moron crawfish, you're wasting your time... GZ

To: David Lawrence who wrote (312557)	10/31/2002 1:36:23 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Respond to of 769667

Why is America being pushed into a war against Iraq? "Iraq nuclear weapon development program represented a direct threat to Israeli security." If we follow Israel's logic, then Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia should all have the right to pre-emptively strike Israel's for building illegal nuclear, chemical and biological WMDs. Israel's arguments against Iraq are illogical and hypocritical. American foreign policy is being subordinated to the Israel agenda by a treasonous Congress and Jewish-American Israel Firsters. ssc.upenn.edu