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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: richard surckla who wrote (33858)	11/2/2002 7:22:25 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Dear Richard Your response is encouraging. You put forth within your response yet another question that comes up concerning "feelings". While it is impossible to believe that any man should become a "new creation" without at least "feeling" something, many may 'feel' saved or 'think' they are saved when they in fact are not. The response of those within what Jesus said was in my opinion disbelief and shock! Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? "have we not" = you must be kidding I hear surprise and amazement that they are finding themselves outside of Christ's eternal kingdom. The question becomes this. If simply "feeling" saved or even manifesting "wonderful works" is not evidence of salvation then how can anyone know for sure that they are in fact one of the Elect? Gordon Clark a well known philosopher of modern times stated that no one could "KNOW" beyond doubt that they were saved prior to judgement because as the scriptures stated - no one was or is worthy to look into the book of life except the Christ. He therefore concluded that, without actually seeing your name there, or hearing Christ verbally approve of you, that you could not know beyond doubt that you were in fact saved. Philosophically and logically this would make sense. How could anyone prove that they are indeed redeemed? The problem with this very logical conclusion is that it flies in the face of scripture. While many false converts are promised and they themselves believe they are saved, yet those who are truly saved are to "KNOW" that they are saved with a very real assurance: 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. Some argue from the old English that the "may" means maybe or might know That is because they do not yet understand the huge change in the meaning of many English words. This "may" is more like the "permission" sense of the word as in the old game "mother may I" or more plainly "in order that" If you read KJV that same word "may" is used again in the same chapter for a completely different word in the greek text. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. In other versions the verse is stated as this: 13 (ROTHRHAM) These things, have I written unto you—in order that ye may know that ye have, Life Age-abiding—unto you who believe on the name of the Son of God. 13 (WEY) I write all this to you in order that you who believe in the Son of God may know for certain that you already have the Life of the Ages. The word "may" is not in the greek text - it is added in English so that the words may 'flow'. It is not possible to maybe know for certain:-) That is an oxymoron that leaves the reader without comprehension. To know is not for all but it is for the "we" to whom John is speaking. It is likely that you may know all of this. My question is what is it that Santiago has said that makes you wonder if he understands it? I think he does. I have an advantage however because I was around some time ago and read many of his posts. I do find it troublesome to separate the sheep from the goats around here sometimes but I think Santiago knows the 'ins and outs' of being truly saved. At least that is my judgement. One more small comment. Have you ever considered that any "interpretation" could be called "opinion" and the question as to accuracy or correctness is still a matter of judgement on the part of the hearer? Just thought I would throw that in to see what you think. Thanks for your post Brian