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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (17522)	11/4/2002 6:07:41 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

tommy. ....." "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (Q. 9:5)"..... And in response to this you said....." Sounds pretty bad, until one reads the entire verse: "[at-Taubah 9:5] Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."...... Just how in hell do you figure the whole thing sounds better than just the first part of it? It says kill the unbelievers. It says lay in ambush for the unbelievers. It says besiege the unbelievers. It says " if they repent and establish worship and pay blood money then let them live. Repent for what? and worship whom? does this mean that if they want to live they must convert to islam. Or maybe it means that if they worship allah they will be allowed to live providing they still pay the blackmail money. Ya tom sure sounds better when ya read the whole thing...Gees And then of course it says this....." Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."...... If the moslem allah was forgiving and merciful he/she would not say slay anyone. and he/she would surely not have created a cult such as islam and permitted them to murder so many thousands of people over the last 1500 years. WOULD HE/SHE?? Now you can bring up the crusades in defense.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (17522)	11/4/2002 8:27:14 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Sounds pretty bad, until one reads the entire verse: "[at-Taubah 9:5] Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Actually reading the entire verse confirms that those who are idolators per Islam, are to made war on until they convert - "repent and establish worship". Ike is a Pakistani. It's a good bet he understands Islam better than an atheist like you.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (17522)	11/5/2002 7:35:32 AM
From: lorne	Respond to of 23908

tommy here is one of the other two verses which you asked why I had nothing to say about them. "[at-Taubah 9:4] Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him)." Well first of all moslems refer to anyone who is not like them " moslem " as idolaters which as you know means someone who worships idols so in the mind of the moslem " such as it is " all who are not moslem are beneath them. nice way to start a verse of tolerance don't you think? Now as you have pointed out this verse ( Q.9:4 ) comes before verse ( Q.9:5 ) How come you didn't put them in order? :-) ( Q.9:5 0 says...." Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.".... So when ( Q.9:4 ) says this....idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you.".... Does this mean if the non-moslems have not gained any strength and paid the blood money required by the moslems and as long as the non-moslems have not made any new friends they will be permitted to live? And this.... " fulfil their treaty to them till their term."..... So what happens to all the non-moslems when their treaty runs out? And remember that ( Q.9:5 )Comes after these words...." "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (Q. 9:5)"..... And this " Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him)." Does the word duty here mean the blood money?